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Can coin doctors AT coins in the holders?

fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
Has anybody heard of coin doctors toning coins that are in the grading service holders? This would be one way to bypass the bodybags for AT. I have seen several toned proof coins in the big two's holders(NGC and PCGS) designated deep cameo. These coins were heavily toned with beautiful color and showed no signs of cameo whatsoever. It makes my wonder if the color appeared on the coin after it was certified.

Comments

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
    An article in Coin World some years ago showed that this could be done. I'm sure the coin doctors are doing it today. The Coin World article was actually about the airtightness of several brands of slabs.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,387 ✭✭✭
    Yes, but not as easily and not with as many techniques as they can raw. Therefore it is usually more detectible.
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,267 ✭✭✭
    It would be very difficult to AT a coin in a slab. While they are not hermetically sealed, they are very well sealed, and it would be difficult to get a gas containing sulfer to pass throgh the slab and over the coin. I suspect that the coins were treated with a non-abrasive cleaner, but were not properly stabilized prior to being sent in for slabbing. After receiving them back from PCGS, they may have then changed in the slab. I also wonder if the slab materials can cause coins to tone in the slab; I believe Alan's (MoneyLA) toned Washington proof quarters continued to change colors after they were slabbed.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • ArtRArtR Posts: 474 ✭✭✭
    As has been mentioned in a couple of the other post, it can and has been done. The ones I have seen, the toning was not very attractive. I honestly don't know if todays doctors are doing this or not.
    If It doesn't have great eye appeal, I don't want it.
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do know that if you submit proof coins in polybags inside of poly-vinyl 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 flips that the slab sealing process will tone the coins. That is why PCGS sent out flyers telling submitters to send coins in mylar 2 1/2 X 2 1/2 flips without the polybags.
  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570


    << <i>I do know that if you submit proof coins in polybags inside of poly-vinyl 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 flips that the slab sealing process will tone the coins. That is why PCGS sent out flyers telling submitters to send coins in mylar 2 1/2 X 2 1/2 flips without the polybags. >>



    PCGS says it will haze the proof not tone it.

    Do you have a picture of a coin toned from this?

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  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Do you have a picture of a coin toned from this? >>



    No, but I am sending it off to airplanenut to photograph. It is an awesome rim toned Smithson 5$ gold proof (PR69DC)with lots of color. This coin could not even be called a cameo with all the heavey toning. I sent this coin in myself about three years ago and it was a tone free blazer. I like the coin much, much, better with the toning.image
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, goody image More toned stuff to look at! Wahoo! image
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  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭
    What temp does a pcgs slab start to melt?
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭
    I believe PCGS slabs are made from polymethylmethacrylate (acrylic).

    Since acrylic is an amorphous polymer (non-crystalline), it does not have a melting point. It simply softens more and more as its temperature is raised.

    At about 300F, acrylic will begin to soften.

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  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭
    I don’t mean to alarm anyone, but this brings up an idea that has often concerned me.

    Commercial polymers are very rarely NEAT. NEAT in the industry is short for Nothing Else Added To. Virtually all polymers have various additives that improve physical properties, burn characteristics, and/or processability. These include impact modifiers, UV stabilizer, melt flow enhancers, antioxidants, mold release agents, flame-retardants, and the list goes on.

    While acrylic is an inert material, additives can and do de-gas from the host polymer. Over time and/or at higher temperatures (150F), what effects would these additives have on a coins surface?

    Is PCGS’s guarantee with regards to the coins grade indefinite? If present, has PCGS considered the effects additives have on the coin within the slab?
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  • BikingnutBikingnut Posts: 3,365 ✭✭✭
    Wouldn't that be considered fraud?
    US Navy CWO3 retired. 12/81-09/04

    Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭
    I know I can get a silver coin to tone in a oven just set on tinfoil. I think 200f is enough to do it but it takes longer than at higher temps.
  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭
    Here is my "baked" coin.

    image

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