Okay Brit Collectors, did I do Okay?

Askari · October 30, 2003 2:07PM

I came across this by accident and thought it was a rather nice example of an 1893 Old Head Half Crown, MS-64. I got it for the seller's reserve and $20 over Krause doesn't seem too bad for MS-64. What does Spink say ... or, better still, what does your market knowledge say?

spinaker2000 · October 30, 2003 2:16PM

The 2003 Spink has an UNC at 70 pds ( about what you paid in US depending on the rate) As far as the coin goes, it ain't copper so I don't know.

SYRACUSIAN · October 30, 2003 2:28PM

Not bad at all; I had it on my watchlist,but didn't particularly liked the scan.If the coin is indeed FDC (it doesn't look to me) ,then the Spink value is absurd - I should quote the prices Spink publishes in its "Numismatic circular" instead

Lloyd · October 30, 2003 2:59PM

Seems nice and the price is ok but I don't get it!!

"recently came out of a European sale as FDC" --- this means it's a proof, no?

Given my very limited knowledge of US grading, How did he get to MS-64 if there are no marks?

I'm so confused I don't know what questions to ask....

L

SYRACUSIAN · October 30, 2003 3:40PM

Lloyd, the FDC is not only applied to proofs; it's the French term for (perfect) unc; as for the MS 64,it's the grade given by its owner,not any grading company.He probably thought that stating it as MS 65 ,would be pushing his luck

Lloyd · October 30, 2003 3:59PM

Dimitri
So if it came out of a sale as FDC, and assuming that's true, the only thing taking it back from true mint state is the toning?

L

wybrit · October 30, 2003 7:18PM

It is hard to tell from the picture what quality the coin is. The seller is reputable, so I have little reason to doubt his description.

I'd say you probably have a good purchase, Askari. Assuming an abt FDC coin, you have paid a fair price. My 2003 catalogue says £75.

1jester · October 30, 2003 7:26PM

Lloyd, if I read your question correctly, you're not sure why an FDC coin wouldn't get higher than a 64, right? That's a good question, and I agree that the grading "standards" seem to be a bit subject to interpretation. Indeed, there are 11 different grades of "mint state". I suppose that's why it's not exactly a science, but rather an educated opinion.

rhound1977 · October 30, 2003 7:42PM

The 2004 Spink has it at 85 pounds in UNC around $140.00 U.S.

Aethelred · October 30, 2003 9:20PM

If the coin is really Unc. you did o.k. You can't tell much from the scan, but many of these have a very pretty proof-like look.

SYRACUSIAN · October 30, 2003 9:54PM

Jester,I'm not sure that Lloyd's question was if FDC = upto MS 64 only.

Lloyd the guy offers this item ,saying that in its previous sale it was described as FDC ( = flawless ),which under normal circumstances should be MS65+,but he gives the benefit of the doubt - probably because he found out some slight defect- and grades it as MS64.
It's very difficult to translate the US system in plain English;the way I understand it,an MS64-65 (and above) is the "virtually as struck",the MS 63 is a guaranteed unc ,and the grades below very seldom meet the unc criteria.

MacCrimmon · October 30, 2003 10:20PM

<< <i>"virtually as struck",the MS 63 is a guaranteed unc ,and the grades below very seldom meet the unc criteria. >>

Grades in the MS60-62 range are also 'virtually as struck' and struck and struck and struck, and STRUCK, by other coins.

laurentyvan · October 30, 2003 10:22PM

The coin is handsome and the seller does a very good job of describing the coin. It does somewhat speak to grading confusion (in the general marketplace) to see the more educated members of this forum with diverse (but rational) opinions on the ultimate grade or why the seller graded it the way he did-grading is still the most difficult part of this game!

It's 70 in the northeast, halloween will be nice to the trick or treaters tonight and I have a three day weekend and will be attending the RNA coin show on Saturday, so yes, I'm feeling very chipper! You gentlemen and ladies have a nice day! If there is something in particular anyone is looking for, let me know-I'll be checking in tonight.

Lloyd · October 31, 2003 2:46AM

Askari
This is a good buy and almost certainly UNC. I've just got a problem with this FDC thing. Are you going to certify it? Whatever it would be nice to know your view on the coin when you get it. Did I say "nice"? . Try "vital"

Lloyd

Askari · October 31, 2003 5:48AM

Thanks, all!! Certify it?!?!

Not on your life, Lloyd!!

Best I can tell from the pics, it lives up to his description other than the note about "FDC". I suspect the MS-64 quoted is probably right. An FDC coin from that period is likely MS-67/68, I would expect, given the technology of the day. On the obv., there appear to be a couple of nicks on the 'G' in "Gratia", but it's hard to tell whether any of the other prospective "problem areas" are "real".

coinkat · October 31, 2003 9:02AM

I don't claim to be an expert on Victorian 1/2 Crowns, but I think if the coin is attractive and by US standards is in the 64 range or possibly higher, you did well. Askari, I clearly understand your feelings about slabs, but there are some coins that are of such quality that slabbing is not a bad thing... Is this a coin that falls into that catagory? It may... Please consider posting a larger picture of both sides once you receive it so perhaps the suggestion can be made... I mean this in the most respectful way possible.

Askari · October 31, 2003 11:30AM

I've dealt with this seller a few times before and not had trouble with his descriptions. I feel pretty sure it'll fall in the MS63-65 range. I expect it to be a nice piece with the favorable attributes he points out. From the sounds of it, I got it for an XF to gXF price, so I'm "covered" on the downside risk, but I will be amazed if it's "FDC". A coin that's MS67+ is actually worth considering sending it in if only for the protection of its surfaces. If it were really that grade, though, I'm quite sure the seller would have sent it in himself before offering it. I'll be looking forward to having it "in hand" for an up-close and personal look!

Askari · November 10, 2003 9:53AM

Well, I now have it "in hand" for an up-close and personal look. It is indeed Unc. and well-struck up, but it's definitely not FDC. I'd say it's a firm 63 but not a 65 on the Obv. and probably a 65 on the Rev. which is practically pristine. On the Obv., there are some light bag marks in the veil in the triangle defined by the right end of the coronet and the 'G' & 'A' of 'Gratia'. There are also a couple faint scratches in Vicky's eyebrow that look almost like lashes; they certainly don't stand out. In fact, they are only noticeable under magnification. The luster is nice with a pale golden toning across the entire reverse and on the obverse as a ring through the legend. Overall, a choice example, but hardly "museum quality." I certainly got it for a decent price.

1jester · November 10, 2003 5:37PM

No sl*b for the this one then, Dark Wizard?

Okay Brit Collectors, did I do Okay?

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