Given the current economic environment...I can dream can't I?

SportscardAdvocate

Okay, maybe a misleading topic name, but my budget has stopped me from continuing my assault on my 62 BB set. Right now I just fantasize about what cards to buy if I had the money within this set and then I drift to what would be other sets I'd collect, than I wander to alternative things to do.

My current pipe dream (and it's been very much tailored by my economic situation) is to start a 75 collection . I've got the set complete raw(from packs I bought and opened myself as a kid) and am in the process of upgrading it. This being such a popular set however, I doubt I would make an impact on the set registry. So in order to be somewhat different , in my mind at least, I'm considering starting and I guess completing this set in SGC holders. (If it's good enough for ToppsGun's 59's, why shouldn't I think about it?)

Does anybody have any thoughts on the merits of this? I like the SGC holders and I think they would match the 75 colors nicely. Would the strategy be to submit or buy them holdered? If so, is the market for SGC holdered 75's robust? Or maybe even crossover? I'm sure some people crossover from PSA to SGC. What's the board's sense on grading consistencies on the 75's from one company to the other. For example is SGC more lenient on PD's?

What would be a good minimum grade to set as a standard 86? Or maybe 92?

Thoughts? Answer as many or as few questions as you like.

acowa

I would contact Mike Castaldi. Hick nickname on the boards is mcastaldi if you want to PM him.

He once started an SGC 1975 set. He might have some left over or advice for you. He's pretty knowledgeable on that set.


Regards,



Alan

koby

The 1975 Topps set is a great looking set. If you intend to have an entire 1975 Topps collection in SGC holders, you will not be able to purchase them already in SGC holders. A search of current ebay auctions reveal the following:

"1975 Topps PSA" 326 entries


"1975 Topps SGC" 10 entires


As you can see, you will either find nice raw cards to submit yourself or you will have to purchase cards in PSA holders to crossover into SGC holders. This is going to greatly increase the cost of your collection without adding a lot of value. Best of luck to you.

Basilone

My advice would be to save your money and just collect the set in raw form....and keep them in Card Saver I's rather than an SGC set.

Of course the spirit of collecting is to collect what you like....so if you dont mind spending thousands for a set that will be worth less than if they were in PSA holders...then go for it. The cost of crossing over SGC to PSA...just doesnt make sense.


John

toppsgun

"If it's good enough for ToppsGun's 59's, why shouldn't I think about it?"

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Putting a '75 set in SGC holders might be the sincerest form of flatulence.

Stick with the '62s, man. Keep the 75's raw.

What is it with you and colored borders, anyway?

1954

John,
I think if he wants to grade it in SGC holders or any other grading company, please do it. I do not use SGC, however I think they are a fair and accurate grading company. Perhaps SGC will grade the complete set for $3.50 a card to thank that customer for doing business with them. A complete graded set whether it is 77 cards or 660 cards bring publicity to not only the collector, but the grading company.
As a PSA set registry member I would like to see a special from PSA to grade a complete set at ONE time for a set price of let's say $5.00 or $4.50 per card. This would generate quick cash flow for PSA and bring more cards out on the registry.

1954

helionaut

SGC does good job grading (unless it's a Doyle T206) and their grading prices are competitive, moreso without the $100 "cover charge". Personally, I like their 15-point scale versus a 10-point scale, although I don't like the numbers they assigned to it, but that's my personal quibble. I check them out sometimes in looking for my 75s, and they don't bring the same prices, probably owing to the lower number of people collecting SGC rather than the quality of their service. Compare and contrast:

SGC 96 Pete Rose $260
with
PSA 9 Pete Rose $405

The difference in price for these cards is significant. This price was typical for a PSA 9 Rose, and I don't recall seeing a similar SGC card before. While the SGC card's scan is much smaller, you can tell it has much better L/R centering, at least. The PSA card also looks like it has some sort of dark print spots on the yellow around the S in REDS, although that may be distortion from the scan. If I was a braver or richer collector, I would probably have taken a chance on the SGC card and tried to cross it over.

So by all means, go for an SGC set. That'd be one less person to compete with on PSA 75s, and you'll get honorary membership in the Friends of Wentz club. But the dearth of set builders will mean you probably will have to do a lot more submissions of your own for the commons as compared to relying on the marketplace, if that's a factor.

Wayne8348

Last year there was a large group of SGC 88's and 92's from the 75 set that hit ebay. It seems that the vast majority of the commons brought less than $3. In fact, I believe that many of them closed at the opening bid of $1. If you are sure that you will be keeping the set and/or the investment into it isn't an issue then pick whoever. Both companies do a great job. Just understand that if you do resell then there may not be a market for the cards.

Wayne

brumbach

I think that if you want to do the set graded, then go with PSA. From the looks of your post, it seems as though you've adopted a sort of self-defeating attitude that if you can't crack the top 5 on the registry, then it isn't worth it. To be honest, anyone who can complete one of the larger sets like '75 Topps in straight 8's or better deserves a pat on the and should be proud of the accomplishment. You'll probably get more views of your set and more offers to fill your wantlist with that set on the PSA registry as opposed to the SGC registry. While I think SGC is a more than capable grading company, how many people really go over there to check out the sets on their registry versus PSA's? The PSA Set Registry has so many sets registered that trying to make an impact on any of them is a mighty tall order. Be happy with what you are collecting and try not to allow your ego to devour your collecting passion.

grilloj39

I say if SGC makes you comfortable and look of the holder is appealing to you, then do what makes you happy. As far as buying raw cards or already graded SGC cards, you can save a chunk of change by buying already-graded commons. Those bulk submission forms will take a bite out of your budget. Some other advice, don't go cheap on the star cards. To avoid buying a trimmed card, by an already graded star card. It will cost you a little more money, but less hassle in the long run.

mcastaldi

As Alan mentioned, I did indeed begin a 1975T set in SGC holders before eventually going on to complete it in all-PSA form. I too liked the holders and the prices on eBay were attractive. Keep in mind, this is when PSA8 commons regularly went in the $12-$15 range.
So. . .I started the set with a minimum grade of SGC86. I got to about 10% complete in SGC holders and became VERY disillusioned. Frankly, SGC just wasn't consistent enough for my tastes. I'd have some cards that were in SGC88 holders but centered 75/25. SGC88s with significant roller marks on them. Most of the 86s I found to be dull and lifeless. One of the things I like about the 75 set is when you get a card where the printing plate struck it just right, the colors on the borders can be so thick and rich. For those of you who think PSA is lenient on "fish eyes", I have news for you - you should check SGC's stuff from the mid-70s.
Probably my biggest pet-peeve with SGC-graded 1975s is they are WAY too lenient on "snow". Print snow is very prevalent on 1975T - especially on cards with large areas of dark shadows (Lonborg comes to mind) and cards of players with black hair (Bando, Baylor, Aaron #660, Herb & Claudell Washington, etc). The DeCinces RC is all but impossible to find with absolutely no snow. Anyway. . .I'd see cards in SGC92 holders that I know full well would end up in PSA8 PD or PSA7 NQ holders because of print snow.

In the end, I sold off most of the SGC-graded stuff. I kept the stuff that I felt would cross over to PSA. The Yaz and Seaver PSA8s I had in my set began life in an SGC88 holder.

I don't mean this as a knock on SGC. I know they are a highly reputable company and respect their place in the hobby. I simply did not agree with their approach to grading this particular set of cards. And I think that's ultimately the point when deciding which grading company to use - which one most closely agrees with YOUR criteria for a certain grade on the cards you collect. When it comes right down to it, YOU are the ultimate judge of your own cards.

Mike

VaYank

Building slabbed sets for collectors is not really about money and investments and profit. As a collector, an attractive holder, accurate grading, great prices, and excellent customer service are absolutely vital. I am building a 1977 set in SGC and I am about 33% done -- 40% by year end. I have been doing it through mostly direct submissions and off ebay transactions.

Direct submissions are the most fun because the responsibility lies with you, the collector. Are you trained and disciplined to pick the winners? With timely discounts and bulk submissions, you can do it for about $6.50 shipped.

Ebay transactions are a possibilty, but the real value is building relationships with sellers of your particulaur issue. If you post about your set, sellers will also contact you with buying opportunities, which will never show up on eBay.

As for cross overs, the answer is maybe. Sometimes big time PSA collectors will submit mountains of cards and look to dump the cards, which don't pull the grades they wanted. If get scoop these up cheaply enough and wait for a cross over special, it can be economically feasible.

There are a number of SGC '75 set builders, but four are going after it with gusto. One is 66% complete, another 50%, a third 35% and one at 27%, who has average grade of 96%. You might want to contact them directly and they can speak with expertise on your questions.

Wabittwax

I would suggest using PSA. If your cards came from packs and were stored nicely over the years, you will wind up with many cards that would get a PSA 9 or SGC 96. The Pop1 or Pop2 PSA 9 commons are worth really good money (up to $100 range) while the same card in SGC 96 won't bring nearly the same money. Plus another rule of thumb is to not submit something that isn't worth the grading fee. Common PSA 8's can still fetch grading fee while SGC doesn't.

mcastaldi

VaYank> 40% by year end? Isn't that the same set you started what? Two years ago?

Mike

VaYank

Yup. Started March '02. I have a goodly amount of quality raw to submit -- but that funny thing called cash flow keeps me on a moderate pace... ... I originally expected a three year project. Now the estimate is 3 1/2 years for this 660 monster. I just started a business, and if I can for myself what I did for others, I could have the dinero to still get it done in three years. But no rush. Sorta.

mcastaldi

VaYank> I guess your definition of a "moderate pace" differs from mine.

I guess my sense of progress is skewed. I started the second go-round on the 72 set in March 03 - and I'm already 660+ cards in. I'm looking complete it within 1 year without breaking the bank. Noone believes me when I tell them what my per-card outlay is.

Everyone at their own pace. . .

Mike

VaYank

I am building my set atv an average $75 per month! Anything more is not respecting my true life responsibilities and priorities such as they are right now....unless my business hits... then the gloves come off...LOL

Good luck on the '72's!

Machodoc

I agree with Mike - if you do enough looking things are really depressed in most PSA 8 sectors right now. I began my 1972 T set in late August and when my latest private transaction hits the set it will be about 93% complete - not too shabby. I also believe Mike when it comes to the per card price because after 725 cards mine hovers around $9.70.

mcastaldi

Steve> I'm definitely in for more per card than you are, but at the same time I have a few more 9s

But. . .I think the cost per card is going to go up for both of us as we get closer to done - but for different reasons. . .
I need a bunch of HOFers - Bench IA, Stargell, Stargell IA, Reggie, Rose IA, Yaz, Seaver, Aaron, Robinson Traded etc.
Your expense is gonna be on the toughies - Mays IA, Schaal IA, McRae IA, Aaron IA, Baker, Wills IA, Kline, Garrett, Reds RC, Grote, & Holtzman

Mike

Machodoc

Sounds reasonable Mike - my costs have been held down by my ability (or luck) in finding a few great bulk deals - 100 cards or better at a time. This has saved me not only expense, but valuable time. I figure I will get down to the same 25-30 cards that everyone else hits the wall with and then stall out for a while. Nevertheless I will get there in a few months even if I have to go bounty hunting!!! At the very least it sure as heck beats a 1977 SCG set!!

Ullr

Speak of the devil.
Yesterday 108 SGC '75's were listed on ebay.
Link
NO SCANS in the auctions, but you can ask seller for a scan. What a marketing genius?

mcastaldi

Steve> I've found that the most consistent way to keep your costs down is to submit your own

Mike

jackstraw

my 2 cents

jackstraw

or you could buy some SPAM at about 4 bucks a card which would start you off at 10 percent of the set

mcastaldi

Jack> Sure. . .there are 75T in SGC holders that more than measure up. However, my experience with SGC-graded 75T in the last two years tells me that an SGC92 can be any of the following -
- A card with mint corners, but tons of fish-eyes
- A card with mint corners centered 70/30
- A card with great eye appeal, mediocre corners, and minimal print problems
- A card with mint corners and tons of white snow
- A card with mint corners, 60/40 or better and no print problems

If corners are your big thing, then SGC92s will probably do it for you. But if you are particular about print flaws and centering, then finding 92s that will meet your standards becomes tougher. Not impossible, but you won't be able to pick up just any 92 and expect it to meet your standards.

Mike

jackstraw

mike,
very true. i have often thought that sgc should go to the qualifier and keep the point 5 scale.