lincoln experts: is this 1911 or 1920-s cleaned (reposted with pics) --- RESULTS POSTED

spadesjedi

Hi guys,

Came across these 2 coins in my collection. I'm not 100% sure they have
not been cleaned. The '20-s obv looks natural to me, but the rev looks a
little too "bright" or "wrong color"?

The 11 reverse looks awesome (is it too awesome? Looks like the proper color?) and the
obverse of the '11 looks a little suspicious to me.

Opinions? I'm not an expert, and would rather not wait a month and spend
the money to have bodybags!

It's strange that only 1 side of either coin seems a little suspect, and the other
side of each coin I'd say looks good.

help me

tstone@ida.org



thanks
tim

clackamas

The 1911 from the Pic looks fine but the 20-S has, IMO from the pic been polished at one point. Remember however that how RED a coin is or how much tone it has developed will affect the grade. The 1911 may not grade as high as you think because of this.

coinguy1

Tim, it's really hard to tell for sure from the pics. But, the 1911 looks like it might be ok,while the 20-S does NOT look original to me.

redcents

I agree. Especially the reverse on the 20.

merz2

The lack of luster on the 20-S and the color difference around the date and letters on OBV says cleaned to me.

LincolnCentMan

Looks like we are all in agreement. To me, the 11 is origional. I have no doubt that the 20S has been messed with.

David

spadesjedi

Thanks guys.

I'll send the '11 in to PCGS and the 20-s either to ICG or maybe I'll just spend it

(To show I don';t know what I'm doing here, the color difference around the
date and letters on the '20-s to me was an indication it hadn't been cleanded.
I would have thought if it was cleaned, the whole side would have uniform color)

thanks again
tim

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Tim

Don't listen to these guys.Send both coins to ANACS.Do not under any circumstances spend these coins.ANACS has an 800 #
If you want more of my reasoning then PM me.

Stewart

clackamas

Stewart - CHILL - "Don't listen to these guys". What did "these guys" say that he should not listen to?

"Looks like we are all in agreement. To me, the 11 is original. I have no doubt that the 20S has been messed with." Do you not concur?

BTW - I think most people understood that he was not going to REALLY spend the 20-s, it was just an expression that the coin was not what he thought it was.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

clakamas - Don't tell me to chillIf you can't take the heat...then get out of the fire!

ANACS will give better grades for these coins

tradedollarnut

ANACS will give better grades for these coins

So will ACG, but how will that help?

Are you saying that the combination of a higher grade and medium discount in price will maximize his value?

jacktheknife

I agree with everyone, if that's possible. I do think the 11 looks O'k. But, I also agree with Stewart to send in both of them. I just think the 20 shouldn't be written off based on a pic. I would like to see it in person before advising someone to throw it in a drawer or otherwise mishandle it. It'll cost only about 15 bucks to find out.

spadesjedi

I sent them both in to ANACS.

I figure that way at least they'll both get slabbed, even if cleaned.

It is true that they do look a bit different than the pics. It's
really hard to take good pics of these coins. I spent almost an hour
making those 4 pics, I kept trying different lighting, etc to try
to get the coin represented accurately, but in the end I
pretty much gave up. What do other people do?

I also tried a scanner, but the color differences didn't show up
at all. The pics came out showing uniform luster.

For instance, the '11 obverse is much brighter than the pic shows.

Thanks for all the advice, I'll post a follow-up when I get the coins back
(I'm using 5 day service, so it shouldn't be too long)

tim

spadesjedi

You guys had the answer, I'm impressed.

1911 : MS63 RB (not cleaned)
1920-s: "UNC Details Net AU-55 Cleaned" I assume that means its uncirculated but the cleaning drops it to AU.

thanks guys
tim

XpipedreamR

Thanks for the follow-up.

braddick

<< <i>You guys had the answer, I'm impressed. 1911 : MS63 RB (not cleaned) 1920-s: "UNC Details Net AU-55 Cleaned" I assume that means its uncirculated but the cleaning drops it to AU. thanks guys tim >>

Tim, the fact ANACS gave it a net of AU55 instead of AU50 speaks well of the coin- it hasn't been to offensively cleaned.

dpoole

Yes, thanks, Tim.

I'm still not sure what upset Stewart so much. ANACS does appear to have been the way to go, but no one seemed to be disagreeing with the notion that Tim should submit them for a look-see.

I thought Merz laid out the reasons for pronouncing the 20-S as cleaned very nicely.

coinguy1

Tim, I think you should ask Stewart to reimburse you for the ANACS fee on the 1920-S. You could probably have done just as well selling the coin out of that holder, as you will, in the holder.

spadesjedi

Heh, naw Stewart's advice was well taken.


I was real disappointed to look at the price guide though. As it turns out,
it looks like neither coin is worth the $20 it cost to get them graded.

Let alone what I paid for them, which was too much.

live and learn.

(I figured a very early date like 1911 in MS condition, and RB would fetch
at least $100. PCGS price guide says $32, which means the real price is
less than 20 IMHO)

i should have read the price guide before I submitted them.

tim

merz2

tim
Don't take the price guide to seriously.The latest auctions have proved them wrong on Lincoln Wheats.You may be surprised.Some raw collector may like the UNC details of the 20S and crack it out to put in his collection.There are many Collectors looking for AU because they can't afford the UNC ones.RB is very desired.