Does acetone "neutralize" dip?

k10

I just got a lower valued coin purchased from ebay. Not too horrendous, still has plenty of luster, but it has obviously been dipped. Will acetone neutralize any dip residue that may have been left on the coin?

agentjim007

Baking soda neutralizes. make a fairly heavy solution hold coin in it then rinse under clean water.

nwcs

Acetone will not neutralize an acid. Only a base can. Rinse it in baking soda water and then rinse it in acetone to evaporate the water. It'll be faster and safer than patting dry or letting air dry.

k10

That's what I thought. Gracias.

Russ

I use 99% isopropyl alcohol as a neutralizing agent. Very effective and, unlike baking soda, non-abrasive.

Russ, NCNE

XpipedreamR

Don't let baking soda rub against the coin because it is abrasive and will ruin the coin.

k10

<< <i>I use 99% isopropyl alcohol as a neutralizing agent. Very effective and, unlike baking soda, non-abrasive. >>


Baking soda seemed like a bad idea when I read about it in some of the numismatic literature. Does alcohol have the proper Ph to neutralize the dip?

fountainheadgold

Alcohol works the best

BigE

How do you get the alcohol to 99%?-can't wait for the suggestions here----------BigE

agentjim007

the baking soda is not abrasive if you just dip the coin in the baking soda water (no rubbing) use common sense.

jamesfsm

I use basically the same procedure as stated.

I dip, then rinse with water for a long time (relatively), then rinse with alcohol and lastly dry with a hair dryer.

crito

What happens when you mix baking soda and vinegar? Acetone will safely dissolve dip residue and stop the reaction. Water isn't nearly as good of a solvent (especially with oils) and baking soda will accelerate the reaction.

crito

Or in short, it's better to neutralize the reaction on the surface of the coin by removing the cause, the dip residue.

wallstreetman

Lacquer Thinner is a good neutralizer!

crito

After dipping the coin in sulphuric acid, just dust it with baking soda and wait until the bubbling stops, Wallstreetman. Please post before and after pictures.

agentjim007

What happens when you mix baking soda and vinegar? Acetone will safely dissolve dip residue and stop the reaction. Water isn't nearly as good of a solvent (especially with oils) and baking soda will accelerate the reaction.

Whats vinegar have to do with anything here? what happens if you add a lit match to acetone (about as relevant as the vinegar) I've use baking soda at least 100 times nothing was ever accelerated. I'd experiment with cheap coins and make up your own mind.

Russ

One other note. Depending on your area, rinsing in water could actually damage the coin long term. High mineral content, pollutants and chemicals are very common in many water systems, and can eventually materialize as problems on the coin. Never use tap water, only distilled.

Russ, NCNE

Conder101

If you are trying to make sure any acid residues are neutralized then water or alcohol won't do it although they will help to rinse them away. The baking soda solution on the other hand will. After you mix up the solution let it stand for awhile to let any solids settle out then dip the coin just in the liquid. Afterwards rinse throughly and I agree with Russ use distilled water for the rinse. I then dry the coin with a acetone rinse.

CaptainRon

Man sometimes I don't understand this forum. I read thread after thread how a lot people think dipping is so bad and people that do dip coins are greedy coin doctors looking to make a buck by getting a jump in grade. However whenever someone inquires how to properly dip a coin or how to properly rinse a coin, alot of people are more then willing to share the way they do it, and even argue as to which way is the better way.

This is something I also do not understand. Why many of those that DO think it acceptable to go ahead and dip a nice silver coin with great luster, think doing the same thing to a mostly red Red/Brown copper coin wil great luster, is wrong. I have seen and dipped copper like this, and have had it it slabbed, why is this any more wrong then dipping a Morgan. Granted you have to be more carefull and selective with copper, since most are not candidates for dipping.

Conder101

CaptainRon, I don't like dipping of coins, and generally I don't do it. But I have done quite a bit of experimentation over the years to determine how to do it properly. Why? Because sometimes a coin does have to be dipped to remove contaminents that over time will cause great damage to the coin such as active PVC, or the residues of a previously improperly done dip. If I have to do that then I needed to know the safest, least disturbing ways of doing it so that minimal alteration is done to the coin and so that the coin will not be endangered in the future from the actions that I am having to take. If not done properly dipping a coin can cause immediate damage or result in greater damage occuring.

I don't dip a coin simply to enhance its appearance or marketability.

CaptainRon

An Acetone bath to remove PVC is one thing. Actually that is why I showered a few of my first coins that I ever purchased. These large cents were covered in goo. Actually I had know idea that it was the flips causing it. Some of the coins I had sitting in olive oil for a while, then after rinsing with water and patting dry and putting them back in the same flip I noticed that it came back. What I had believed at that time was this was from the oil that I did not rince well. I believe that it was you that actually helped me out with this problem, and said get them out of the old flips you knucklehead, it's the flips causing the probs.

I have sold very very few coins that I have purchased, most of my boo-boo buys, I have given away to the young collectors that will appreciate the coins more then myself. In some cases I will explain why I was not happy with the coin. Examples have been, buying a coin at MS prices, then after more knowlege realizing it was a slider. Bad color, Culls to fill holes, plated coins, colorized coins, you get the picture.

Since I sell VERY VERY few of my coins, I have no desire to RESLAB or CROSSOVER any of my coins. I have only made one exception to this and that was with a two Linc. and two IHC's cents that I cracked from a RB slab's to dip. Three came back a point higher with a full red, the other I did not get so lucky on. They all had great luster, and were btn 80% and 90% red to begin with.

Now my point being I think the coins look much nicer, I'm prouder to own them. They please me more then before the dip. Is this wrong, I don't think so. However many would disagree. The only reason I can think of why they would shun this, is because either A) They buy the same quality of coin that mine looks like now, however have to pay a considerable higher price. Are doing the same that I am doing, and are pissed because I'm not willing to pay the high dollar amount for their work. C) They are hypocrites that b;tch just to b;tch and make someone one else look bad and themselves better and more knowledgable. Even though they are doing the same.

What is the differance between, A) giving your coin an acetone dip to remove some of the haze so your Proof/SMS Kennedy half can grade a point higher. Cooking a morgan to add some colors, so it will sell higher C) Putting them in a holder that you know promotes toning over time. D) Recoloring a Silver or Copper coin to original color.

Answer - Other then two of them making the coins look origianal and the other two making them look more colorfull - NOTHING - They have all been manipulated in a way to give them a better overall appearance to either please the owner, or to make them worth more money, or by having a higher grade by the grading companies which in turns makes them worth more money.

I can admit that I will look at a coin and purchase it a lot cheaper for my collection, knowing in advance that I'm going to do something to the coin to make it look just like they one right next to it, that is selling for perhaps 8'x the amount for the one I purchased.

Have I made mistakes in the past by dipping a coin that should not have been? Certainly, I have a few funny looking pink pennies that are sitting right next to a Brown or Red/Brown coin that had nearlly identical color and luster. I keep these pairs as a referance so I will not make the same mistake again. The same goes with Silver now, before I dip I make sure I have one that looks nearly same in color and luster as the one I'm about to dip, I keep both coins togather as a pair to learn from. Since I've seen few coins that I really really do like toning on, I have never wasted my time trying to accelerate toning on a coin, however if that is what pleases the person, and it pleases the buyer, more power to them, IMO it is no differant then what others are doing to inrich the appearance of coins with aceton baths or dipping.

Bottom line for those of you that b;tch about AT artists and yet dip your own coins. Stop because you are being a hypocrites.

And if you are saying you just dip to remove a bad dips residue, then why waste your money paying for the coin in the first place if you believe dipping is so bad. Once again that is also being a hypcrite buy purchasing what you believe in is wrong.

Just my opinion...............

k10

<< <i>Bottom line for those of you that b;tch about AT artists and yet dip your own coins. Stop because you are being a hypocrites. >>


To whom, specifically, are you referring, CaptainRon?

CaptainRon

To spicifically name one or two individuals would not be fair to them, when this applies to a vast of group of people. Do a seach for dipping or AT'ing and you will see many threads of differant people complaining. I dip, as I know many others do. I feel what I am doing is no better or worse then what people do by AT'ing a coin. It is a changing the appearance of a coin to suit the collectors or sellers idea of beauty or worth.

Russ

<< <i>I feel what I am doing is no better or worse then what people do by AT'ing a coin. >>



They are two radically different things. Properly dipping or conserving a coin is an attempt to restore it to the state in which it existed when first minted, and to stabilize and preserve the surfaces. AT'ing a coin is an attempt to radically alter the appearance and done, in most cases, to deceive a buyer in to paying more for the coin.

Russ, NCNE

k10

CaptainRon, the initial question was how to use acetone to remove any dip potentially left on the coin. I'm not trying to alter anything. I want to keep the coin the way it is. This was not intended to be about AT'd coins, and no one mentioned it until you did.
I sincerely appreciate the input from the informed members.

CaptainRon

Like I have said in the past I do not not collect toned coins, I do not make toned coins. However I can not see how those that do are doing worse then us by dipping. We are both altering the state of the coin from it present condition. In most cases when done properly they will be slabbed. Once again, I do not see how dipping a coin to remove what time has done to it, for a higher grade (More money) Then storing a coin in a holder that is known create a chemical reaction with the coin to add colors, to sell for a premium are differant.

To say that a proof 66 or 67 coin needs to be dipped because it needs conservation is ludicrous, the reason that coin is dipped is to give it a fighting chance at a 67 or 68. Russ you have stated that yourself have done this in the past. are you now going to tell me the reason you bathed it was to remove a finger print.

They have both been manipulated by a non natural way, bottom line they have both been doctored.

k10

Captain Ron, I don't think anyone but the most zealous purists would equate ACETONE to dipping.

CaptainRon

K10 sorry to bring the AT'ing into this thread, I just found it amusing to see not only in this thread, but in many others like it, how dipping is bad. But yet have plenty of experience of it. The reason I brought up the AT'ing was I look at it in same regards as dipping a coin, they both alter the appearance of a coin. I personally do not think it is wrong.

If you are just starting to dip coins however, you may want find pairs that look quite simililar in luster and color before starting, this way you will have a ref in the future as to what look good to you and what does not, and types of coins look the best after a dip.

work on cheap moderns first. Circ coins in my experiance look like crap after a dip so be very carefull before trying them.

1) Dip, 2) Baking Soda Rinse, 3) Water Rinse then an 4) Acetone finish has worked best for me, on ocasion a quick reapeat of 1,2,3

I was by no means trying to slam you, hope this helps out.

Russ

<< <i>To say that a proof 66 or 67 coin needs to be dipped because it needs conservation is ludicrous >>



CaptainRon,

One can only assume from that statement that you have little experience with proof coins from the 1950 to 1970 era. Many, if not most, that have been sitting inside proof packaging since minting have developed a variety of surface problems that did not exist when the coin was first produced. In many cases it's not a matter of improving a coin that grades 66 to 67, it's a necessity in order to rescue the coin and make it presentable at all.

Would you rather have this coin in your collection?



Or, this one?



They are the same coin. The difference is, it now looks very much like it did when it was first minted.

The only thing that is "ludicrous" here is your assertion that there is no difference between conserving a coin and artificially toning a coin.

Russ, NCNE

CaptainRon

After reading my previous posts and knowing that I do dip coins, the answer should have been pretty obvious even without the pics. By the way that is a screamer and congrats on it. I'm sorry if I put you on the spot, however ... I believe, conserving a coin is changing the apperance of the coin (This does not bother me) Just like a coin being stored in a holder that you know will change the apperance of that coin, (Mint bags, Wyatt Folders, Heat to acceralte time etc) They also change the apperance of a coin.

I'm not talking about the extremes like taking a blowtorch to a coin, just like I'm not talking about extremes in Whizzing a coin. I am talking about purposelly manipulating a coin to give it better beauty to either yourself, or the buyer.

If someone wants to but a coin on above of a 100w light bulb for hours or someone wants to dip the haze or color off so what, They are both changing the appearance of that coin bottom line.

Why is it that you think age acceloration is differant then the removal of what has done.

I'm not talking about blow torches or Whizzing here, I talking about sublte changes that most do in one form or another to a coin, that when done properly they will slab. IMHO I look at them the same.

Once again Russ sorry for putting you on the spot, this is just something I guess we will disagree on.

wallstreetman

I dipped a SBA PCGS PR67 in Lacquer Thinner and bumped it to 69! I will admit, it should have been a 68, even with the haze!

coppercoins

Ivory liquid dish soap does just as good as baking soda and isn't abrasive...and yes, I do dip coins, and no I don't like toned coins, period. I like for coins to be well stored and well preserved, but when they aren't, they need to be conserved by removing chemical contaminants and oxidation bringing them back to their original mint luster. All the crap around here about 'original' has gone way, way overboard, but I usually keep my mouth shut to preserve peace. These people are dead wrong in my opinion, but stating so to anyone directly only starts a war that has no winners.

1jester

If you dip copper, how do you get the proper look back?

coppercoins

<< <i>If you dip copper, how do you get the proper look back?

>>



Simple - don't dip copper. Conserve it, but don't dip it in the typical acid solutions that work on nickel and silver. There are different methods.