Venezuelan Topps

rbeaton

I just picked up the following:


The back on the 1967 Venezuelan I have (Paul Blair) is different from the regular Topps version and is written in Spanish, yet, this Palmer looks just like the regular Topps (except it looks to be on different stock).

Anyone know anything about these?

Robert

mikeschmidt

They're very rare -- they were generally glued into albums, and finding them in any condition is usually an extraordinary find. Not all of the VZ Topps cards had backs written in Spanish -- sometimes it is just different card stock. For example, I think it is the 1964s that have backs in black ink. Very hard to find in any condition.

M

RedHeart54

So is the card stock the only way to know this Palmer is a Venezuelan issue? There doesn't appear to be anything on the reverse that deciphers it.

Virtualizard

Here is my '66 Venezuelan Stargell:



Marc, I believe you may be thinking more of the '77 Venezuelan issue. I believe they were commonly stuck in books and generally have paper loss on the back.

The only noticeable difference I've seen on the '66 is that the toning on the reverse is more red in the Venezuelan issue, whereas the Topps issue is more pink.

For comparison, here is my '66 Topps version of the same card:

JEB.

brumbach

Lizard-dude, Marc is correct. For all years of the Venezuelan Topps issues, starting with 1959, can be found in less-than-complete shape much of the time. The tendency of Latin collectors in general during that time period (Cuban cards in scrap books also comes to mind) was to paste their cards into albums and scrap books. The result much of time are cards with large amounts of paper loss on the back. 1968 was the final year for the Venezuelan Topps issues as cards, from then on they were issued as stickers. It seems as though each year is a little bit different with regards to the differences with the American counterparts. As you have already noted, the cardboard quality is much lower, this is for all years. The '64 issue has black and white backs as opposed to the peach/orange US issue. For 1968, Printed in Venezuela is on the back of the card, other years have write up in Spanish (1962 I believe). Venezuelan Topps cards were issued in 1959, 1960, 1962, 1964, 1966, 1967, and 1968.

mikeschmidt

<< <i>Lizard-dude, Marc is correct. For all years of the Venezuelan Topps issues, starting with 1959, can be found in less-than-complete shape much of the time. The tendency of Latin collectors in general during that time period (Cuban cards in scrap books also comes to mind) was to paste their cards into albums and scrap books. The result much of time are cards with large amounts of paper loss on the back. 1968 was the final year for the Venezuelan Topps issues as cards, from then on they were issued as stickers. It seems as though each year is a little bit different with regards to the differences with the American counterparts. As you have already noted, the cardboard quality is much lower, this is for all years. The '64 issue has black and white backs as opposed to the peach/orange US issue. For 1968, Printed in Venezuela is on the back of the card, other years have write up in Spanish (1962 I believe). Venezuelan Topps cards were issued in 1959, 1960, 1962, 1964, 1966, 1967, and 1968. >>




And 1977 Venezuelan Stickers ;-)

mrc32

So is it possible to complete a full set of these Venezuelan Topps cards from the 60s?

brumbach

<< <i>So is it possible to complete a full set of these Venezuelan Topps cards from the 60s? >>



It depends upon what kind of condition you are looking for, but generally it is difficult, though not entirely impossible. As far as grading goes, the PSA-6 Stargell is about as good as it gets for the most part. I've been picking up mostly '68s with complete backs and minimal creasing for a few years now but the set isn't a priority so I'm not that far along. Many that pop up on eBay that are in decent shape are run up by player collectors. The '67 issues is unique in that it is essentially a three tiered set comprised of Latin stars, current major leaguers, and retired major leaguers. The first three years, as well as 1967, have about 200 cards while the rest have 370, they are abbreviated versions of the US counterpart.

murcerfan

Now all you need is the French-English OPC variation

mikeschmidt

As an interesting sidenote -- I often do not view the Population Reports as indiciative of anything at all in regards to some of these rarer issues that are sparsely collected and even more sparsely graded. But I think there is at least a somewhat good indicator of how rare these cards are in terms of the Population Report. I haven't looked at SGC's population report, but most of the VZ cards I have seen graded are graded by PSA.

In all the years that Venezuela Topps produced cards, as of today, there has been a total of one card graded PSA 8, and approximately 28 cards graded PSA 7 -- and that is total number graded across quite a few years of issue -- including no examples graded to this day of the 1977 Venezuelan Topps Stickers.

Jeb -- though there are some VZ Topps cards that were not glued to albums, I think that is the exception more than the rule. Though it is possible often to "de-glue" cards and have them graded by major grading companies (such has happened in the past with 1915 Cracker Jack cards, for example...) the process is quite burdensome and not often worth it. That being said, these cards are tough to find in any shape -- and I can only think of one or two dealer contacts in all the hobby that could even direct me, in general, to finding some of these elusive cards.

Being married to a Venezuelan, my general thoughts are that the continued political instability and the poverty rate of nearly 80% or greater will continue to diminish any future chances of "finds" of these cards. Though Venezuelans love baseball more than any other sport (including soccer -- which is rare outside the US), these cards simply are not out there.

MS

rbeaton

<< <i>Now all you need is the French-English OPC variation >>

You mean this one??


Also, here is my 67 Venezuelan Blair:


Robert

brumbach

<< <i>Now all you need is the French-English OPC variation >>



Don't worry, I pick up '65 and '68 OPC from time to time as well. Those are in English with no French, only the PTD. IN CANADA notation on the back. It's worth mentioning that with regards to the '65 OPC's, the ink quality on the back is much better than their US counterparts, with the blue color retaining it's brightness as opposed to the tie-died acid-washed Topps backs often encountered for 1965.

Two minor clarifications from my above posts. I was a bit vague in lumping in Cuban issues with the Venezuelans as most of the Cuban issues range from the 1920's to the 40's whereas the Venezuelans don't start until 1959. Also, for 1967, the Latin stars portion of the set are really more like local minor league and winter ball players as opposed to any Latin stars familiar to the US baseball fan.

Skycap

There are many baseball player sets that include Venezuelan and OPC cards, and I think that is a bit unfair. Especially with the Venezelan cards, they're near impossible to find, especially in decent condition. The baseball player sets should include only U.S. cards. Of course, the hockey player sets should include U.S. and Canadian.

Skycap

Virtualizard

<< <i>There are many baseball player sets that include Venezuelan and OPC cards, and I think that is a bit unfair. Especially with the Venezelan cards, they're near impossible to find, especially in decent condition. The baseball player sets should include only U.S. cards. Of course, the hockey player sets should include U.S. and Canadian.

Skycap >>



Sorry, Skycap, I completely disagree with that statement. By definition, a Player Set on PSA's Set Registry can include any card that has been graded by PSA as long as it falls within the player's playing days. Why do you think I have that Venezuelan Stargell in my collection? I searched for a long time and paid a lot of money to obtain that card. It is satisfying to know that my work paid off and I probably have one of the best examples of this card that will ever be found. I would have never even known about these cards if I hadn't begun collecting player sets. It makes the collecting all that much more fun. Anybody, with the money to do it, could complete a lot of the player sets within a matter of weeks if they only included the issues that you are suggesting. I love the thrill of looking for, and finding these rare issues, whether they be produced in the US or abroad.

JEB.

Virtualizard

Marc,

Thanks for the reply. When I read your first post, I automatically thought of the '77 Venezuelan Sticker issue which includes a Mike Schmidt card. These are always found with damaged backs (as far as I know - I've never seen or heard of one that had not been stuck to something). Sorry for the confusion.

BTW, have you had any luck obtaining this issue of the Schmidt card? I've come across a few in horrible condition at outrageous prices and passed on the deal.

JEB.

AlanAllen

I must agree with Jeb, the Venezuelans should certainly be included in the master player sets. As obscure as they are, they are distinct from the Topps counterparts and are gradable. I love the oddball stuff, personally.

Joe

calleocho

i dont have much to add about these cards ...but thanks a lot for this post.

NickM

Dave's Vintage Section is the best source I know of for the Venezuelan cards. He also sells on eBay, and sometimes has a fair number of team lots up for bid.

Nick

[edited for typo]

marty

The 1959 cards do not have any gloss. 1964 has black backs.
1968 does stateHECHO EN VENEZUELA

murcerfan

"some cards are so rare and ugly that nobody wants them"

thanks for the interesting post Marty
are those for sale at Marty.com ??

why not post us a link?

theBobs

There was a dealer at Nationals with several near sets of VZ plus many singles. I didn't view his entire inventory as I was chasing Obaks. I don't remember his name, but know his general location. He is the only dealer I saw at Nationals with VZs... Virt -- that Stargell is an amazing card!

Some glue damage on the back of this Perry...





Murcerfan, when you start up the PCL collection, let me know.

mikeschmidt

I am just generally so happy to see such a number of collectors come forward and be proud of their relatively modern cards that have numbers 2-6 on them -- and not the 8s, 9s and 10s.

Though I collect high grade cards from a few sets and for a few players -- I do have a modest run of Venezuelan Phillies cards, and I love them all. None of them are in great shape -- but I am as proud of them as I am of any other high-grade cards I have.

Basilone

Marc-

Is your wife digging those VZ Phillies cards that you got her? Remember those two...that you left in the envelope that you sent me.

John

dstudeba

Are there any of these cards that have different pictures than their US Topps counterparts? Kind of like the 77 cloth cards?

Virtualizard

<< <i>... Virt -- that Stargell is an amazing card!... >>



theBobs,

Thanks! I paid an amazing price for it as well! It was worth it though.

JEB.

seahawker

I am trying to complete the set registry master set for Robin Roberts and am looking for a 1964 Venezuelan Topps graded/ungraded, any condition. I also need a 1965 O-Pee-Chee Roberts card graded/ungraded etc. Any help or leads would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RHW

rbeaton

<< <i> I am trying to complete the set registry master set for Robin Roberts and am looking for a 1964 Venezuelan Topps graded/ungraded, any condition. >>

Dave's Vintage Baseball Cards has one: http://gfg.com/venezuela/ven64.shtml

Robert