Any cards made in between these gaps?

RobE

It would be interesting history to read about the before during and after card production came to a hault during these spaces.Some periods due of the war effort,depression,the crash of 29 and such.But think of the fate that some cards fell victim to like WWII too.And picture some kid giving up his 39 Play Ball Dimaggio and Williams to help out the War.Think in our lifetime we'll ever see card production come to a hault?

I don't know if this has been discussed before but anybody have any info worth sharing to fill in the blanks?

1889-1903
1905
1907
1908
1917 - 20
1923 -25
1927 -31
1937
1942 - 47

Griffins

MP & P put out some cards in '43, really ugly ones. Sorta generic drawings with players names assigned. Bond Bread did a Jackie Robinson set in 1947 that isn't too bad looking. I think there is 1 in either the Superior or Mile High auction this month.
Exhibit put out cards pretty much continously from 1921 - 1966, if you count those as cards. The early 4 in 1's are pretty cool.

murcerfan

Rob,
You mean baseball right?
take a peek at the set registry composite (back to the old format, thanks BJ)
1937 OPC -albeit Canadian.
1895 Mayo.
lots of strip cards and Caramel issues throughout the twenties (i think), nothing i ever collected.

certainly there were some "cold" periods over the years..and then there is 1952-56
and 1910-14

edited to add: and don't forget 1933-7

qualitycards

ROB - Actually in many of the years you mentioned there were cards sets, many of them regional.
As example of sets produced, here are a few ...
1889 ER Williams Game
1889 N-338-2
1895 Mayos Cut Plug N300
1903 E107
1907 E97 CA Briggs
1907 HM Taylor Tigers

If you need other examples for your other later years advise, and I'll do a bit more research....jay

aro13

For 1889-1903 to Jay's list I would add:

1889 Number 7 Cigars (N526)
1893 - Just so Tobacco

The Standard Catalog of Baseball card's lists 31 sets between 1889 and 1903
The Catalog lists 4 sets for 1905 including Sporting life Team Composites (W601)
The Catalog lists 16 sets for 1907 including W555
The Catalog lists 15 sets for 1908 including American Caramels E 91's, E102 set of 25

There are a lot of listings between 1917 and 1931 which are mostly W series strip cards

RobE

<< <i>Rob,
You mean baseball right?
take a peek at the set registry composite (back to the old format, thanks BJ)
1937 OPC -albeit Canadian.
1895 Mayo.
lots of strip cards and Caramel issues throughout the twenties (i think), nothing i ever collected.

certainly there were some "cold" periods over the years..and then there is 1952-56
and 1910-14

edited to add: and don't forget 1933-7 >>




Yes.I have a bad habit of looking at only baseball and thinking there is no other sport.

Jay,griffins,Aro,Murcer,whatever you can find out I'd love to hear about these "Cold Years"

Griffins

Rob-
Wish I had more specific facts here, but the jist of what I've read is this:
In the late 1880's several Tobacco companies used the hugely popular sport of baseball, along with a few other sports (I was as shocked as you were to read there were "sports" besides baseball, they included chess, bicycling, and foot ball) to promote their products. By the early 1890's consoladation of those brands made promotion pointless, and there were much few issues. Fast forward to the 1908 period and the trust breakers (Dept of Justice) broke up the American Tobacco Company, and the smaller companies (like Sweet Caporal, Piedmont, Fatima, Uzit, Lenox, etc etc) once again turned to inserted cards to promote their brands.
I'm sure this information needs some factual clarification (Schmidt please jump in about here) but thats the basic story. If you are interested in more about this period (thru the 20's) I would highly recommend Lew Lipset's book "The Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards", and a subscription to The Vintage and Classic Baseball Collector (VCBC. I had also read that during WW1 ('14-'18 for the rest of the world, '16-18 for the US) German ink was unavailable, making production difficult. This doesn't explain the Cracker Jack set, other than the fact that CJ's are duo tones (2 ink colors) where many of the T- and E- sets are 4 color printing jobs.
In 1942 it is speculated that Play Ball printed the first part of the '41 set on paper stock, the last major set before Bowman and Leaf in '48. You see these uncut sheets a few times a year, and the cards occasionally. Materials were in short supply during the war, and frivolous things like baseball cards weren't a priority. I"m sure Zardoz or King Kellogg can fill us in on life as a young man during this time period.

spacktrack

I believe in the late 1920s, a few ice cream/dairy companies put out card sets. Among them were Yeunglings and Tharps. I will try to see if I can find pictures of these cards. They are black and white photos and are slightly larger than tobacco cards, I think.

spacktrack

RobE

So is anybody actively collecting anything in between the "Gaps"around here???

I was hoping Marc would jump in on this,how could you not enjoy what he has to say

GATOR5

Maybe this is a stupid question buy why were all the sets named with letters and no's??????

mikeschmidt

Gator:

Precedent from a cataloging system from days of yore.

E = caramel/candy

T = tobacco

N = Chewing Tobacco (I think...)


RobE:

1928 has one of the coolest sets ever, the Fro-Joy Babe Ruth set. One of the six cards in the set is a close-up of Babe's hands. It is VERY VERY cool.

Yes, Tharp's Harrington's and Yuengling's were all produced in the late 1920s. Vorthian (of days of yore) would be the consumate expert on those sets.

Griffins

Fro Joys are also one of the most reprinted sets, and a large percentage of what I've seen on ebay are fakes. The color ones right off the bat are all fake, and many of the black and white ones.

curmudgeon

Amen Griffins:

One does not dabble in Fro Joys--there are far more fake than real out there. With all due respect, I doubt I would even buy one slabbed by a reputable grading company unless I saw it in person and had the opinion of someone I trusted. Still, they are cool, and worth spending 5 bucks or so for a reprint set.

Todd

murcerfan

Baseball Cards And The Fifth Cycle

By Lionel Carter

( Article orginally published December 1957 )

Baseball card collecting, which is but one small field in the growing hobby of card collecting, appears to be entering the last years of the Fifth Cycle o£ card inserts. It and the First Cycle all began in 1887 when the morals censor cracked down on the use of actresses in packages of cigarettes. The Goodwin Tobacco Company substituted baseball cards in their packs of Old Judge Cigarettes, and this set became not only the first but also the largest baseball set (over 2000 varieties have been found) ever issued. May's Cut Plug followed with a set of 40 cards, S. F. Hess issued a small set of big league and California League players, and the D. Buchner Company inserted a few baseball players along with police inspectors and captains, jockeys, and actors in their Gold Coin Cigarettes. And so ended Cycle One.

Baseball boomed from 1908 through 1915 and with fellows like Mathewson, Cobb, Johnson, Tinker-Evers-Chance, there had to be baseball cards. The tobacco companies also dominated the Second Cycle when such popular brand names as Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, Sovereign, Old Mill, and Polar Bear issued first a set of 522 "white borders" and then a set of 208 "gold borders." Other notable tobacco issues included a set of team photos by Fatima, 50 double folders by Mecca, 76 triple folders by Hassan, 426 Pacific Coast League players by Obak, and over 500 red bordered cards of various southern leagues by Old Mill. Candy and gum manufacturers entered the field at this time with many companies coming out with sets of 25, 30, or 50 cards topped by a very distinctive Cracker Jack series of 196 cards. Sporting Life and Sporting News issued sets of 200 cards, and cards were wrapped in bread baked by the General, Morehouse, Weil, Rochester, and Ward-Mackay Baking Companies. War halted this outpouring of cards.

The Third, Cycle began and ended during ihe early Twenties and was dominated by the American Caramel Company, but these cards are so scarce and there are so many varieties that no one knows just how many cards were issued. The Collins McCarthy set of Hall of Fame cards and their Zeenut series of Coast League players were outstanding sets in a period of cheap cards with blank backs that even today remain unclassified. Bread cards, similar to the American Caramel cards, were issued by the Holsum and Weil Baking Companies.

The Fourth Cycle was a period of gum issues that began in 1933 and lasted until war again called a halt to card production. Three gum companies were largely responsible for this renaissance: The Goudey Gum Company with its Big League Cards, National Chicle with Diamond Stars and Batter-Up Card's and Gum, Inc. with the Play Ball sets.

The Fifth Cycle really topped all of the others for a variety of cards and products. The Topps and Bowman Gum people easily dominated the field, but the Swell Gum and Leaf Gum Companies offered early competition. Later cards were issued with bread (Remar, Tip Top, Sunbeam), cookies (Johnston, Mothers, Drakes), ice cream (Hagues), weiners (Wilson, Hunters, Glendale, Stahl-Meyer), potato chips (Dan Dee, Nuan Num), dog food (Red Heart), and even tobacco made a comeback (Red Man Chewing Tobacco). Out of this vast array only Topps Gum answered the bell in 1956, and perhaps only Topps will issue baseball cards in 1957. The Fifth Cycle is in its dying stages.

Griffins

Lionel Carter? What next, Burdick or Egan?
Did this come from VCBC, or some other source? Interesting article, especially coming from such a noted collector.

murcerfan

I believe it was Lionel "Little Trains" Carter.

but pronounce Lajoie

RobE

MS,Murcer and everyone else!

Thanks for the info on the lost years.

I love this stuff!