Vintage Football Registry races to watch..

JasP24 · October 24, 2003 3:47AM

Going into the final week before the 2003 Awards are given out, there are some "epic battles" going on in vintage football. As a football only collector, I think its great to see so much interest in the football side of the registry this year. Last year this time, there were few close races if any. Football cards in general have gotten a HUGE boost due to the PSA Set Registry, and I hope the trend continues. The more competition the better.

Sets still up for grabs with a week left---1951 Bowman, 1960 Topps, 1962 Fleer, 1962 Topps, 1963 Topps, 1966 Topps, 1967 Philadelphia, 1969 topps 4 in 1, 1970 Kellogg's, and 1972 Topps. Some of these battles are within just 2 or 3 registry points. Also still closely contested are the All-Time Great QB, RB and WR sets.

Anyone interested should take a look at some of the awesome football sets that have been assembled in the past year.

JasP24

Fabfrank · October 24, 2003 4:32AM

Jasp24- Couldn't agree with you more. You have been putting together some great sets. I've been frustrated by the lack of quality (PSA 7-9) material that has been available. I've also seen some lower end graded cards show up on Ebay recently (R. Berry PSA 7 comes to mind).
Although I would like a certificate or 2, I'm into building the best possible sets and won't compromise on a card just for the sake of a number.

JasP24 · October 24, 2003 4:52AM

Yeah, and the PSA 8-9 stuff that does come on goes SOO far above SMR its just crazy. Sometimes 5X-6X SMR.

Personally, I don't mind picking up a lower graded card that I can upgrade in the future. Anything I buy that is "low grade" I usually get at a discount and re-sell later for a profit. I have been selling off some of my lower graded cards on ebay the past few weeks and gotten considerably more money than what I spent for them just a few months ago. So as long as i dont overpay for something that I will eventually upgrade, then I won't lose any money in the deal.

With a set such as NFL HOF RC set, which is 170 cards with NO commons, my #1 goal is to complete it. Then upgrade when possible.

Best of luck on your sets as well,
JasP24

alohaet · October 24, 2003 4:58AM

Jason, I see you have a PSA 8 Don Maynard RC in your receivers set. Are you interested in upgrading to a PSA 9? You can take a look at the one I have in my receivers set. SMR is $185. I am open to offers if you want it for the final push.

Ed

(ET's Receivers Set)

SKINSFAN · October 24, 2003 6:30AM

Well as the 2nd place man on the 66,s i want to be the 1rst to say congrats to Dave (fuzzdude)i will not be able to overtake him.More important would like to say what a class act Dave is.We have conversed many times about the 66 set and many others.Done many off ebay deals always without a hitch.Dave is a very knowledgeable collecter and one heck of a competitor.Dave is 1 of the top guys in this hobby AGAIN CONGRATS MY FRIEND well done you deserve it!!!!!!!!! FEAR THE FUZZ!!!!!!

Golfcollector · October 24, 2003 7:40AM

Good luck to all of you in your last minute purchases.....

Mantlefan · October 24, 2003 8:47AM

Jasp24, great observation. The vintage FB sets give many of us a chance for some awards which is not the case with vintage baseball. I agree that the registry has been a huge factor in the growth of vintage FB. What's next...perhaps Non-Sports? Seems to me that many of the NS 50's and 60's sets are starting to appear on the Registry.

JLBroker · October 24, 2003 9:04AM

As a football only collector, I'm glad to see the interest in football too. I am into collecting Steelers. Anyone else big Steelers collectors.

Jeff

Davemri · October 24, 2003 9:10AM

I just noticed today that the 1st place Greatest Running Back set (Jeff Barker) from 2002 is now in 7th place. That is a whole lotta action on that set. I only need 3 more cards to complete this set. It will probably be the first set that I reach 100%.

I need
1957 Paul Hornung PSA 5
1966 Philly Sayers PSA 6 (must be centered)
1991 Stadium Club PSA 9

Let me know if anyone can help me out.

dave

AlanAllen · October 24, 2003 10:11AM

I count myself lucky to still be leading the rushers set. I'm certainly vulnerable with a lot of 70's 8s... the guy in 13th place has 7 cards higher than mine

.

Dave, I just sold JasP a Watters 10, so his old 9 might be available.

I agree that the registry has been a boon for mid-vintage (40's-70's) football. The difference just from last year is staggering!

I was surprised to see Paul Lemm pass wolfbear on '62 Fleer. I predict that won't last too long.

I'm looking forward to seeing the fireworks in all of the sets over the next week

Joe

shouldabeena10 · October 24, 2003 10:23AM

Davemri

There's a 57 Hornung on eBay (PSA 5) sitting at about $50 with 2 days left. I'm pretty sure I saw a few more up there including a raw that looks 6ish.

Good Luck

Mike

JasP24 · October 24, 2003 10:45AM

Dave,

Joe is correct. I do have a PSA 9 Ricky Watters since I just upgraded to a PSA 10. I was planning on listing it Sunday with a Buy it now of $20. I know you are building MANY sets, so I would be willing to sell it to you for $15.00 total which is what I paid for it about a year ago on ebay.

Let me know prior to Sunday via PM or you can e-mail me at jabeduco@yahoo.com.

As far as the fireworks go, let's just say I haven't "updated" for a couple of weeks...I will be catching up on that Sunday or Monday..

Ed,

I have resigned to not having any PSA 9's of 1950's or 60's cards. The few that I have had, I actually sold and bought 8's. Maybe down the road, but for now I've got to spread the spending smartly so PSA 8's are my cards of choice for 50's and 60's. Thanks for the great deals on the other cards from your WR set. Much appreciated and hope to see you back on the Registry next year..

JasP24

murcerfan · October 24, 2003 12:26PM

I'm pretty sure I just nailed it down on the '62 topps.
however there is one set nicer that wants to remain annoynomous and will likely never be registered despite my urgings. I believe the #2 set is for sale and that Leadfoot has been forced to lay off for now. (Good luck with everything Paul).

The mighty Davalillo could still come and blow me away, but he's gonna need about 30 psa 8's to do it,
and he needs some super toughies. This set is tough even if you don't mind spending super retail.

I started this set 13 months ago and am pretty much shocked at how close to an all 8 set i have come. It was not my original intention as i was happy with how nice typical PSA 7's actually are from this set.

many, many submissions of raw cards and some wheeling and dealing made it a really fun mission.
I also met some football kooks that i now consider friends.

happy hunting...Go Broncos

edited to add: i hope to have the remaining scans up in the near future.

wolfbear · October 24, 2003 10:59PM

As Mantelfan alluded to, with non-baseball sets the pond is a lot smaller,
so, with no mega-collectors involved, some of us small and medium sized fish are able to feel like big fish.

The sets from the 1960's that I'm involved with, had 2 or 3 sets above 10 % at this time last year,
now all those numbers are at double, triple, or even higher.

As to building a set in 7, that was my original goal for a few of my sets, but the siren call of the 8's is irresistible ...

ironranger · October 24, 2003 11:23PM

Wolfbear makes an interesting point about how it is easier to be a big fish in the small pond of football collectors.

Does anyone else think that some collectors are into football simply because it is easier to complete sets (due to the smaller number of cards) for the registry?

Part of me can't help but think that some these collectors are collecting the football cards for the "wrong" reasons. Please note that this is not directed at any specific collector, but it is surprising how many new football collectors are out there since the registry started.

I could be way off base though, maybe they like old football as much as I do.

SKINSFAN · October 25, 2003 12:57AM

I think you will find at least 50% if not more of the fb guys are mostly all or mainly all just fb .Some have come from the bb ranks but i dont think just because its a way to be up top. And by the way dont think anyone is coming to football because its a easy way to be #1 there may be less collectors but the comp is tough.Football prices are stonger then bb right now on a whole and even tossing big bucks around does not assure you of anything. We collect football because we like like it. My personal opinion is football is much tougher to come by then baseball in high grade and has a much faster growth rate and a bigger upside then bb. I think you might find if you ask many of the long time bb guys that have started collecting football you might find many agree with that.Bottom line does not mater what you collect bb,fb non sports most of us collect because we like it not for a piece of paper!!

murcerfan · October 25, 2003 1:35AM

Iron-ranger.
I will assume that post was directed at me ?
I played 3 years of high school football as a starting middle linebacker and center.
I had to quit after tearing a knee apart, as if the constant concusions weren't enough.

that said, what exactly would the "right reasons" be.
Do you get a certificate once you have been deemed worthy?
Must we (who no longer have our childhood cards) start out buying creased and nasty hand-me-downs ?
what is the path of righteousness that you have in mind for us that would like to enjoy nice football cards.

I never played a game of indoor hockey in my life and can't skate backwards for beans, does this make me ineligible to collect hockey. I used to go to college hockey and minor league hockey games all the time, would that make my reasons "more better"?

what about people that collect things from before they were born?

What about non-sports?

tell you what, here is the only card in my collection that I am truly qualified to collect:

I am sending it to psa diectly to start my very own "i earned it set"
i only hope J.C. doesn't already have the Jean-Claude Kiley and Tomba

edited to add: Ironranger, this response was something of an over-reaction.
but i'll leave it up as the other side of an argument......nothing personal

JasP24 · October 25, 2003 1:59AM

For me, I collect football because it is my favorite sport by a VERY wide margin. I grew up in the late 70's into the 80's, when football was becoming "America's" sport. In 2003, football is #1 in the sports world. In TV viewers, in merchandise, etc. I figured out about 5 years ago that PSA was the new way to go in card collecting. And if I was going to start a PSA football collection, what better to collect than HOF RC's? They are WAY undervalued even with the current spike in prices. The vintage baseball(Pre-war) will always have a place in collecting because it WAS the sport of choice in those days. But as newer and younger collectors get into the game, I think more and more will choose football.

Just as Skinsfan has pointed out, right now I think you will find the majority of football collectors are in it for the cards. But as time goes on, I think you will see more "investors" jump into football. Due to the scarcity, the upside in value, and simply because football has taken the mantle as America's favorite sport.

JasP24

Mantlefan · October 25, 2003 2:34AM

Part of me can't help but think that some these collectors are collecting the football cards for the "wrong" reasons. Please note that this is not directed at any specific collector, but it is surprising how many new football collectors are out there since the registry started .

I've always loved the vintage FB cards. When the BB cards stopped coming out in September, the Topps Football cards gave me something to collect. Same with Non-Sports. My Mars Attacks and Civil War News sets have always been my favorites. To imply that people are spending lots of money to win a paper certificate is way off base.

thefootballcardstore · October 25, 2003 2:37AM

For the Love of the Cards, Set Registry, Investment, I can't think of a wrong reason to hold or collect Football Cards.

Congrats to everyone this year - (including you murcerfan, nice job on the 62, let me know when you find that "extra" 62 Unitas 8)
I can't wait myself for the final numbers.

Jeremy

AlanAllen · October 25, 2003 2:49AM

Ironranger,
I can see why it might appear that way on the surface, but I don't really see any evidence for it. As mentioned, most of the top FB sets are owned by those who predominantly collect football. I know I collect 95% football, and have for nearly a decade.

Joe

ironranger · October 25, 2003 11:26AM

I thought my post would stir up some emotions. Murcerfan, it was not intended at you or any other specific collector (I do not know you, but you are obviously passionate about cards). Same goes for Mantlefan, Wolfbear, Skinsfan, fuzzdude, stonegate, and the many others that I have bid against or purchased cards from.

To me, the "right" reason to collect anything is because you enjoy it. That was meant to be the point of my post. Frankly, I think the idea of a certificate is silly. But if people want them, fine by me.

I've collecting football cards for longer than I care to think -- about 30 years. I can still remember the first pack I opened. A 1973 topps pack that my aunt gave to me -- the only specfic card I remember was DT Mike McCoy of the Green Bay Packers.

I guess that one thing I still can't understand is why some collectors seem to sell their sets upon completion. I have trouble enough selling off doubles! I guess the thrill of the hunt means more to some than holding onto the cards.

Davemri · October 25, 2003 12:34PM

Jason

I think I will pass on the watters for now. The last watters went out for 7.50 plus shipping while I was on vacation. I will just wait on another since Im in no hurry. Thanks for the offer anyway.

dave

wolfbear · October 25, 2003 4:39PM

ironranger - certificates are NOT silly.
When I showed mine to my wife, she was impressed,
and even tells our friends and relatives "Paul has won awards for his collection".

By the way, I don't own any Baseball cards, but plan to once my football collection is complete ...

ironranger · October 25, 2003 9:50PM

Wolfbear, I never thought of it that way! I could see where a certificate might come in handy when explaining some purchases to the wife...

JasP24 · October 25, 2003 10:11PM

Dave, are you sure that was his Stadium Club RC? I've seen his Ultra and or Upper Deck PSA 9 RC go that cheap, but I don't remember seeing the Stadium Club go that low. Well, I'll throw it up on ebay, feel free to bid if you like.

As far as a certificate goes, I am fairly certain that most PSA collectors were collecting BEFORE the registry and would continue to collect even if the Registry were to disappear. Competing to win a "certificate" is just an added bonus to those with large collections.

JasP24

JasP24 · October 27, 2003 5:28AM

FYI, I listed the PSA 9 Watters with a $15 But it Now instead of $18 and it sold in less than 24 hours...Oh well, got back what I paid for it, plus I got the PSA 10 upgrade still in my collection...

JasP24

SKINSFAN · October 27, 2003 6:32AM

jas i sold a watters 9 couple months ago went for like 30. And if i recall had many diff bidders. Your 15 bin was a very low price as was the 18 offer you made. congrats on your 10. the good news as redskins did not lose this weekend

AlanAllen · October 27, 2003 10:33AM

Yikes, a 9 sold for $30? I think I sold my 10 way too low

JasP24 · October 27, 2003 7:18PM

The only Watters PSA 10 I saw go on ebay went for around 45-50. That was a few months ago though.

JasP24

carew4me · October 27, 2003 11:36PM

I love the action in the Football registry.
Like many of the others here, I only collect Football in regards to the registry.

I am currently building 1954 & 1955 complete Bowman sets and Green Bay Packer team sets from
1948-1979 PSA graded.

I suggest anyone on the fence post get involved in the next 24 months as I think
fb prices will start trending higher.

JasP24 · October 27, 2003 11:53PM

Well, I have been collecting PSA graded Football HOF Rc's for exactly 5 years now and I can tell what the football prices have done because I track prices paid for all my purchases. First off, the SMR for MANY football cards has not changed in the last 5 years. For the cards that have changed in the SMR, the changes are mostly minimal. 5 years ago, my usual "high bid" was 50% of SMR. Many cards, like say a 1955 Bowman Len Ford RC, I paid 50% of SMR. I paid $30.00 for a PSA 8 Len Ford back in early 1999. The last one that sold on ebay sold for $149.00 just a few weeks ago. The SMR is $60.00.

Right now, the typical (football HOF RC) will go for a MINIMUM of what the SMR is, with some cards going 4X-5X SMR.

The BIG price jump started about a year ago, since then its been a steady climb. Eventually football will rival baseball in value.

JasP24

shouldabeena10 · October 28, 2003 12:49AM

no, no, no, no, no.......... there is nothing to see over here baseball guys. Football collecting is silly and just a bad losing proposition. All of us Football collectors are just baseball wannabe's and you guys have all of the good stuff over there. Thanks for stopping by... and good luck on all of your collections!

Have a nice day!

now FB guys.... ixnay on the goodstuffnay.... geesh!

Vintage Football Registry races to watch..

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