WOW..A 1880-CC 8/7 closed for.....
razorface1027
Posts: 4,242 ✭✭
$535.00 in a mere PCGS MS-62...What's the coin world coming to? It's a WEEEEEE bit on the high side AYE?.....
What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
0
Comments
My eBay About Me page DenverCoin on eBay
Also, the title says 62, the description says 64, the slab says 62. Wonder if that influenced the bids and if the winner will send it back?
It is astounding to me that prices for both reverse types are now identical on the Grey Sheet at MS60-63. In fact, it's absurd. I'd love to buy at least 10 PCGS-graded MS63s or 64s, except they just aren't out there!
I guess the VAM Book needs update; the Vam7 (8/7 B2Rev) has the same rarity factor (R4) as the Vam4 (80/79 B2Rev), but the Vam4 lists a higher interest factor (I5 versus I3)
I believe the difficulty in locating them has more to do with attribution than mintage.
Thanks for replying to my post, and for sharing your thoughts. It's a pleasure to discuss VAMs with a fellow Morgan-aholic!
I disagree in basic principle with you. The VAM book also says the 1890-CC Tailbar brings only a modest premium in all grades -- yet MS63s regularly sell for 5 times the price (or more!!!) of non-Tailbars. That's certainly not modest in my book.
My point is, compared to today's interest level in many of the more popular (thanks to PCGS attribution and the Set Registry program) varieties, the VAM book might as well have been written in the Stone Age. And yet, much of its gospel has been carried over into today's market without any update. Interest and rarity levels stated back then were in relation to the few collectors who cared about them. Today, however, we live in a totally different Morgan collecting universe; a reevaluation of VAM popularity, rarity and value levels is sorely needed.
According to the July 2003 Pop Report, PCGS has graded the following distribution of 1880-CCs in all grades (including PLs and DMPLs):
1880-CC -- 8244
8 over 7 high -- 332
8 over 7 low -- 284
1880/79-CC r78 -- 1852
1880-CC 8/7 r78 -- 245
The reverse of '78 coins are roughly four times as scarce as the reverse of '79 coins... and PCGS has made the distinction between the two reverse types since at least 1988. How the Grey Sheet can say they are worth the same in MS60-63 is totally beyond me.
True, PCGS has not made the reverse of '78 distintion between 80/79 and 8/7 for very long. But my experience has been that you RARELY find an 8/7 coin in an old reverse of '78 holder... they're almost always 80/79 coins. In my opinion, the rarity of the 8/7 is further compounded by the fact there have not yet been ANY PLs or DMPLs certified. (I also find that mysterious as all get-out!)
Given the excessive and relentless interest in anything with a CC mintmark, plus the much greater scarcity of the 8/7 variety, I believe it is inevitable that some collectors will want to expand their CC sets to include all of the recognized 1880 varieties. If and when that occurs to any degree, I also believe the comparatively few examples which exist will evaporate in a heartbeat. I think we've already begun to see this take place in the last year or two, even if it is not reflected in Grey Sheet prices for the reverse of '78 coins.
I've been trying to buy every PCGS-graded MS63-64-65 I can find at Ask, but they just aren't out there.
Anyhow, that's how it's looks to me, and I've certainly made my share of mistakes in the past!
-- Dennis
okie dokie. For the sake of VAMing
First, the VAM book (when it mentions premiums) doesn't take into account that certain issues are NOW driven by their inclusion on the Top100, or Hot50 for that matter. You want a complete Top100 set, you gotta include the '90CC "tailbar" and you gotta include the '80/79CC "overdate", but you DON'T need the coin we are talking about. I believe this accounts for the higher cost of the tailbar and the higher attribution of the '80/79CC.
The '80CC 8/7 R78 "overdate" isn't on the Top100 or Hot50, and IS a little tougher to see than the '80CC 8/7 "C reverse", which IS on the Top100.
THIS COIN IS ONLY REQUIRED FOR A COMPLETE PCGS SET. Without the VAMers interest, its no wonder it isn't heavily attributed.
Although, I am only speculating, it probably just hasn't gotten the exposure. On the other hand, using the figure you used, PCGS has only accounted for approx 8300 of this issue, however there is a net mintage of 495,000.
Just out of curiousity, have you inquired into the number attributed by NGC, ANACS and SEGS; the latter two more heavily used by those seeking variety attribution?
No, I haven't inquired as to the number of coins attributed by the other services... the only population report information I have is for PCGS, but I think that should give an excellent indication of relative rarity between the various overdate/reverse varieties.