1941 Doubled Die Obverse, Cross Reference: FS # 1-018.3, CONECA (5-O-IV), LCDDO-1941-005
PennyHound
Posts: 24
1941 Doubled Die Obverse, Cross Reference: FS # 1-018.3, CONECA (5-O-IV), LCDDO-1941-005
Not Listed on Holder, None graded Higher, ANACS population: Only 15 in MS, 5 - 65RD, 3 - 64RD, 1 - 63, MSRB 1 - 65, 2 - 64 & 1 - 63, MSBN 1 - 63, & 1 - 61. NGC population: NONE listed as being graded (in any grade). Only auction results found is from TELETRADE, with nine (9) pieces, the HIGHEST GRADED being a 58BN, back on 17 December 1997, and most recent a 35 BN on 26 April 1999. All pictures are from actual coin(both obv. & rev. have same color and tone as the rev., had to rotate to get the lable in on the obv. pic.) Class IV, Offset Hub Doubling (northeast). Strong doubling on the TY of LIBERTY, 19 in the date, and the ear. Die Markers: Die crack alone the center of the base of the bust. Comments: Not enough pressure was used in the hubbing press on the initial hubbing of this working die as only the outline of the design elements close to the center can be seen. "page 116, THE AUTHORITIVE REFERENCE ON LINCOLN CENTS, by John Wexler and Kevin Flynn"
Read below pictures ... please.
For those that have not read the post's that are under this one, please do. Some will be suprised other/s will not. (Daylight saving time ends the 26th of October)
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Comments
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The CURRENT ANACS pops are actually 15 in MS (150% more
There are undoubtedly more circulated examples that have been graded & I've also seen at leaset 1 on eBay in a PCGS holder in 64RD noted on holder as 018.3. PCGS grades them AND attributes them ON THE HOLDER if coin is sent in under the error program.
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"The CURRENT ANACS pops are actually 15 in MS (150% more): 9RD: 1-63, 3-64, 5-65, 4RB: 1-63, 2-64, 1-65, 2BN: 1-61 & 1-63" by redcents.
"I've also seen at leaset 1 on eBay in a PCGS holder in 64RD noted on holder as 018.3. PCGS grades them AND attributes them ON THE HOLDER if coin is sent in under the error program" by redcents
PLEASE IN-LIGHTEN ME, If what you say is true here? Why does PCGS not list these in their pop. reports and if thy do, please tell me were I have to go to see them, as I have again, just looked and thy are not listed in the report that I am looking at as being attributed as such! (unless thy (PCGS) list/s are in another place in their report) I'm looking at the on-line pop. report. I will call PCGS again and ask, again, as thy told me on the phone, thy only attribute the ones thy feel are major doubled die/s. If this was the case ... I would have thought thy would have told me this on the phone (about submitting under the "ERROR PROGRAM") when asking about this very coin. I told PCGS it was a (FS#1-018.3) doubled die and wanted it attributed as such. Thanks for your in-put.
Varieties-Discernible differences in coins of the same date and basic design are noted with the addendum of a letter to the Coin Number. For Example, if the 15th coin of a series is found with several major varieties, those coins would be listed as coin #15, #15A, #15B, #15C, and so on as needed.
Your: "La Bute Collection, 1941 DDO, Series:14, Coin:88A, (92695.12/3691702)" as noted above is for the 1st, "Doubled Die" variety (1-O-I) for that date. The only one, at this time that PCGS recognizes! If you look at the PCGS pop. report, that is the only one (PCGS) recognized, why is this? Even the 1936 has three types, Die 1= "Type 1", Die 2 = "Type 2" and Die 3 "Type 3", and are listed as such. Also as your coin holder shows, it doesn't show the FS#1-018, just DDO with the addendum A, behind the coin number.
This is not going to go away and I for one would like to know "what it takes for PCGS to start putting more varieties on labels for us"?
Who makes the call here and what do thy (PCGS) use to make it?
Thanks for any replies.
1. PCGS DOES NOT publish pops for errors or varieties or for ANY coins in grades under VG and lumps all VG-VF grades together - YES THIS IS A PROBLEM (I think #26 of 138) - see tangential discussion: link
2. Anacs Does.
3. NGC does for all varieties but not for errors.
4. I actually saw a coin labeled as "1941 DDO FS-018.3 Mint Error" on eBay a couple of months ago.
5. ONLY the FS-018 (i.e. coin# 92695) is in the pops & registry set.
6. ANY coin listed as Series 14, coin 88A, with coin# 92695 IS the FS-018.
7. The FS-018.1 & FS-08.3 WILL be attributed if sent in under the error program.
I had typed out a really long reply but my stupid mouse is acting up and makes my browser "go back a page" without warning sometimes & all I typed was lost. I'll try later with more detail or feel free to call me.
Thanks,
Roger
Also we both know: (5,6 &7 from your last)
5. ONLY the FS-018 (i.e. coin# 92695) is in the pops & registry set.
6. ANY coin listed as Series 14, coin 88A, with coin# 92695 IS the FS-018.
I have not called yet, as thy are not open at this time.
7. The FS-018.1 & FS-08.3 WILL be attributed if sent in under the error program.
Yet from their own guide lines from above: if thy are going to use this (instead of what's already out there and accepted) why must a collector submit under another program (error program) for same thang ie. a "1941 (1-O-I) FS#1-018 = 88A" and counted were as the
1941 (2-O-I) FS#1-18.1 and the 1941 (5-O-IV) FS#1-18.3 must be submitted as mint errors and not counted. If thy (PCGS) are going to be consistent, use what is already out there, or at least their own guide lines ... ie. "88B" and "88C" for these and count them. As is thy are saying one DOUBLED DIE is a mint error while the other is a variety or visa versa, counting one and not the others.
If thy (PCGS) are going to grade Varieties-Discernible differences in coins of the same date and basic design are noted with the addendum of a letter to the Coin Number. Be consistent. Sure would make life easier on all, don't you think?
BTW, I read your other comments on the link. (here here)
I've sent you a scan of an example of a coin slabbed under PCGS's "mint error" program. I didn't know how to include it on the message board.
Gerry
Ron
Will let yas know what thy say when I call em back.
This is what I wanted in the begining, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Thanks Gerry
Got to make that phone call and thanks again.
Also ask about the listing of the error coins and varities as far as the pop. go's and got, "There are to many to list" WOT ??
I said, "well I feel I am wasting money on the on-line pop. report then aren't I, cause that's what I subscribed to it for, to get this information", she again stated the above.
I was told "it will just be frustrating" and it was, and is still, but at least we all know now. The only thing I'm happy about is that other's can read and learn. (realy that's what these boards are all about) Ya got to wander tho, why PCGS has it's ups and downs, no wander to me anymore.
I think the 1941 will go a bit higher on the re-grade anyways, plus getting the varity and FS# on the coin and since I have no bidders yet ... anybody think it would be wrong for me to pull it now and send it back in to PCGS or wait till after the 24th, what you think?
(am going to leave this thread up for others to read)
PULL IT
p.s. I think the one on eBay I alluded to was a 64RD that went for around 4 something or 6 something. Gerry might remember better.
Ron
Just thought I'd give our Seinfeld afficionados a chuckle - sorry, I couldn't resist.
Have a very good day all.
Well you didn't ask, but rather you said you didn't know how, read my friend, read, I know you can get it, if I did, and on the 2nd or third try too.
All I did to post your scan was to save it, (to disk & then do a up load) posted on test forum.
Good Luck!
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