What do you do about ebay fraud?

cmcclelland

I have more than 500 positive transactions on ebay with no negatives, and this is the first big problem I've ever had with a transaction. I bought a 1955 All-American set for $1,500 (see item here). It was described as an EXMT to NM set that was crease free. The guy had all positive feedback, so I figured this was a safe bet. I get the set, and it is actually VG/EX to EX with probably 20 of the 100 cards (including the Four Horseman card) having creases. I politely start an email exchange with the seller stating that I do not think the set was fairly described and asking for a refund. I even offer to cover any ebay or paypal fees he loses on the deal. He repeatedly refuses to take the set back, stating that he paid more than $1,500 for it five years ago, it was described to him as being in that condition, and that he thinks it was fairly described.

I am fairly certain based on my limited understanding of the policies of ebay and paypal that I don't have any recourse through them since I did in fact receive the item in the mail. My question is this - does anyone have any experience with this type of problem or know any steps I might take to try to remedy the problem?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Colt McClelland

Virtualizard

The first question that comes to mind is: How did you pay for the purchase? If you paid by credit card or paypal (paypal with a credit card would be best), you should have some recourse. Contact all parties involved and see what they can do for you. If the seller stated "crease free" and the set contains cards with creases, I would think you have a legitimate complaint. In any case, it looks like you will have a difficult time since the seller seems uncooperative.

Maybe someone else has more advice to offer, but I sympathize with you. I have been burned on several auctions, though not nearly as expensive as this one.

Best of luck. Let us know how it turns out.

JEB.

murcerfan

Call Moose and Rocco

duner

my experience is whenever you buy vintage cards in lots....buyer beware. I don't know why but i've never received a lot of cards that arrived as expected. plus most guys these days bust out lower graded cards and showcase them as diamonds in the rough just waiting to be graded. i'm interested to here what other people say about this scenario.

i think people use lots as an easy clearing house. plus people see $$$ when large vintage lots show up. i know for a fact that if that lot was truly as it was described you got a real steal and would have been able to break it up, grade it, and make multiples of what you paid for it. as for recourse you can leave the guy bad feedback. if you used a credit card through paypal you can still use your fraud protection through the credit card. they'll just make you send the item back registered mail, and then they'll refund the transaction. problem is paypal will probably lock you out of your account as soon as they catch wind of it. either way this looks like a learning experience. hopefully you can get a few of those cards to grade out respectably and should be able to recoup most of your losses.

cmcclelland

Murcer,

I think this guy lives in Lake Placid. Can you go over there and rough him up a little bit and get me my $1,500 back? I'll pay you a 10% finders fee (or I'll give you a 1989 Topps vending case instead if you would rather have that).

CW

Since the item was misrepresented you are covered by ebay, Paypal, and
(most importantly) your Visa/MC. Save and print out all the emails you
send to and receive from this guy. You'll need proof that you attempted
to resolve the situation by returning the item. Like Jeb said, notify
everyone. Here's a link to get you started on ebay...

report misrepresentation

hope that helps and good luck. I'm currently involved with a chargeback
request through Visa and Paypal because and ebay seller failed to send
me 2 boxes of 2003 Topps All-American. Visa always advertises you are
covered 100% against fraudulent online transactions, so we'll see...

Chuck

Spahnfan

I have used eBay's Safe Harbor on two occasions similar to yours. In one case the seller was totally uncooperative and unresponsive. The only option I had was to leave negative feedback. I received a negative back in retalliation. I think this is the only negative I have ever received. Isn't it great when you get misrepresented merchandise, which usually means you lost money on the transaction, and you get negative feedback besides!! That part of the eBay system needs fixing. I digress and that is a whole different topic.
The other instance I went to mediation through Safe Harbor and did receive my money back. This guy was willing to talk to a mediator, the other one was not. That is the difference. I do not know if the "report a misrepresented transaction" link in another post will get you to Safe Harbor or not. If it doesn't, and you want to check it out, the link is at the bottom of the eBay home page.

wlf3

Here's the problem - your definition of EX may be different from his. Who's to decide that? He MAY have misrepresented it, but perhaps he gave his honest "guess" of the grade. I hate to say it, but I am not convinced that EBay nor Paypal nor the CC Company will decide you're right and he's wrong... period. It's a real judgement call. I guess another question is whether you'd have paid $1500 for a VGEX set? There were lots of pictures on the auction, though not real good or detailed. Hopefully you can convince the seller to take it back, good luck... keep us updated.

CW

Their definitions of EX may be different, but the auction clearly stated that
the set was "free of creases". With 20 cards creased, that's clearly not as
described, and Visa claims that they will cover you as long as you make
attempts to resolve the situation by returning the item. Also, the seller did
not say anything about a no return policy in the auction, although I'm not
sure that would matter anyway.

cmcclelland

Thanks for the info. I've yet to take any action, but will probably pursue the Paypal/VISA remedy if he continues to refuse to take the set back. One complicating factor (and a lesson I have now learned) is that I paid via Paypal using about $750 that was my balance in my Paypal account, and another $750 that was charged to my card. I figure I can get at least $1,000 if I break the set up on ebay. I'm now kicking myself for not charging the whole thing on VISA - not a mistake I will ever make again. I was not aware of VISA's policy on this, but after reading it, I think CW is right and I would be protected under it. The crease free description is the key to this whole thing. Grading can be subjective (and I always expect raw material purchased on ebay to be less than as described), but a crease is a crease. Or, in this case, 20 creases are 20 creases. You really can't argue with that. Thanks for all the feedback.

CW - by the way, GO BLUE! I graduated from U of M in 1991.

Colt