News from the bourse - not good for the non-internet guys

ANACONDA

I have spoken to many dealers in the past few months.

MANY of them have reported that business has been good but that sales AT shows have not.

My sales at shows (the few that i make) this year have been ok but then again, i have low expectations for sales at shows.

But sales to people i meet through eBay have been quite good.

(I don't really even have time to do any creative write ups here lately because i can't keep 200 items in my eBay store, which is what i try to do - i don't write long write ups when i have less than 200 items on eBay/in my eBay store.)

adrian

puff

Adrian.... With the exception of your coins, and a few other sellers on Ebay, I think Ebay is more of a dumping ground for low end graded coins, are out right problem coinsIMHO

LucyBop

I have scored and sold many PQ Killer quality coins on Ebay....... They are available.... On Ebay....

wingedliberty

Despite the fact that I love going to shows and the social aspect of interacting with others has increased my hobby experience exponentially, it is obvious and is reflected in the prices of coins at shows, that dealers are obviously trying to make up the cost of the table and the travel expenses and time loss with higher prices for coins in their display cases. This is becoming more and more obvious with every show that I attend. With large shows like Long Beach and FUN having table fees at $1000/table on average and airline tickets at $500 roundtrip, not to mention hotels stays at about $400, the food, the other incidentals, etc, etc, loss of family time, etc, etc, so the dealers obviously charge more in their display cases.
There are obvious expenses with Ebay as well , such as labor, scans, paypal fees, etc, etc, but they are nowhere near what show expenses are.

My two cents worth.

puff

<< <i>I have scored and sold many PQ Killer quality coins on Ebay....... They are available.... On Ebay.... >>



Lucy Bop..... I did say a few other sellers. That would include you.

LucyBop

SMOOCH!

puff

<< <i>SMOOCH! >>

Bear

Yah, Lucys killer coins. You dont buy them and she kills you.


Just kidding lucy, lower the shotgun.

foodude

Beware of Lucy's coins... I've gotten some real stunners from her, the problem is the stunners are so nice it makes some of my other coins look like crap, and then I have to buy more stunning coins from her to replace the crappy looking coins.... it is terrible

ANACONDA

I think shows will always be an intergral place for buyers and sellers to meet but i do think the internet is REALLY cutting into the coin show market.

The biggest negtive for me as far as going to shows is the time and expense.

Interestingly enough, wingedliberty, i was offered a coin at a show recently for 35,000, the seller saying "i paid 29K for it"

A few weeks later the same guy had the coin on eBay with a really bad image but good enough for me to recognize the coin. i contacted him, offered him what i thougt was a fair price and he, not realizing who i was, sold the coin to me telling me that he paid 19500 for the coin.

Needless to say, i will remember the lack of honesty that dealer is capable of and factor that into my future discussions with him.

So, maybe you're right....maybe some dealers are overcharging for their coins at shows to make up the difference....and maybe to get the coins into the hands of the internet buyers, where maybe the market is more competitive, they have to sell more cheaply.

With regard to eBay being a dumping ground......aren't there literally thousands of coin at show you can avoid by avoiding the dealers who sell the junk....and maybe on eBay it's a little more difficult to bypass the crap...you have more wading to do.

It is my opinion that only about 1% or so of the coins anywhere are really high end and eye-appealing, or maybe i should say that experienced people consider owning only about 1% of the coins, that the rest just don't measure up. I know that i have to work very hard to find the right coins at the right prices.

Bustman

You have a VERY good point, Adrian. Its pretty easy to bypasss the junk at shows, by bypassing the junk dealers. Its just a bit harder on ebay. Same search, different venue!

RYK

I go to the shows to look at coins, meet collectors, sell coins, socialize, schmooze [sic], show coins to ANACS...just about everything else except BUY. I spend 80% of my coin money with one dealer (Doug Winter), 10% with another (board member, "Dahlonega"--I wish he had more stuff for me!), and the rest dribs and drabs for fun through auctions.

Shows? They just do not have the material I seek, the sellers are tough and sometimes predatory, you have to make fast decisions, etc. These are generalizations, I understand, but I have been burned at shows but never burned by Doug Winter or "Dahlonega".

P.S. Adrian, nice thread-starts tonight...welcome back!

dorkkarl

i understand that most dealers go to shows primarily to BUY.

K S

1956Quarter

I think one of the keys to the real problem is with something WingedLiberty said. Why are tables hundreds of dollars on upward to a thousand dollars?? That is absolutely userous and rediculous. I collect other collectables. We have shows all the time, some with heavy security. Some in smaller venues like a local moose lodge, others massive in scale at such places like York, PA fairgrounds, all 7 buildings. Never, ever has a table cost more than $20. Whom ever is sponsoring these shows and charging hundreds of dollars or more for a table is criminal.

Barry

1956 - Like the price of coins, the price of tables is determined by the market. If the prices were too high, the dealers wouldn't come. Dealers, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the ANA show has the highest priced tables. The also have the rule about staying until show end, which most don't like. Was there any lack of dealer representation at the ANA show this past summer? Guess that means the market supports the table prices. Or as the dealers would say, the market for table space is HOT

cointagious

<< <i>Whom ever is sponsoring these shows and charging hundreds of dollars or more for a table is criminal. >>



1956,
i love it! i forwarded your comments to baltimore show co-owner ed kuszmar. i'm sure your sophmoric insulant remarks will make his day.

and you folks wonder why the only dealers that will post here are trolling for business.

LucyBop

<< <i>and you folks wonder why the only dealers that will post here are trolling for business. >>



ah Phooey! There are some great dealers here.... I for one don't wonder if they are trolling for buisness...

I wonder about others that troll for no reasons what-so-ever.......

ANACONDA

"you have to make fast decisions"

Good point. When a coin is sent to you, you get to do research, use your lights, your magnifyer, take your time.

When at a show, it's whatever light you can find, it's usually no books, no pop reports, nothing.

With regard to free market on the prices of tables, people were riding horses long after cars came around. Shows will always be a part of what goes on but it will probably become a smaller and smaller part of the business because of the advent of the internet.

Let's face it, whatever you collect, you can see more of it in 6 hours of cruising the internet than you can flying to a show and walking the bourse. Of course, nothing beats having the coin in hand when it comes to evaluating a potential purchase.

As far as dealers going to shows to primarily buy coins, every transaction that involves a purchase by one guy also involves a sale by the other.....yes, coins are sold to dealers at shows by non-table holding guys but the table possessing dealer to table possessing dealer transaction is in my opinion, what primarily goes on at shows - dealers get together at shows primarily to do business with each other and make and renew contacts with each other. There's many other reasons to do shows but again it's dealer to dealer business.

adrian

dorkkarl

<< <i>There's many other reasons to do shows but again it's dealer to dealer business. >>

exactly.

K S