Poll (Update 4 - 55 Votes): Grade this 1890-CC Morgan Dollar

Stuart

Please let me know what you think the grade is of the 1890-CC Morgan Dollar in the attached photos.

And please tell me how you justify your grade. Thanks!!

stman

dollardude

Stuart, this one is definitely either PL or DMPL. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the PCGS standard for DMPL designation is at least 6" mirrors. I know there is a small plastic or cardboard PL/DMPL guide on eBay that actually measures the depth of the mirrors.

The PL designation, defined in the "Lingo" portion of PCGS' web site, means: "Term to designate a coin that has mirror-like surfaces, the term especially applicable to Morgan dollars. Those Morgan dollars that meet PCGS prooflike standards are designated PL."

The DMPL designation, defined in the "Lingo" portion of PCGS' web site, means: "Any coin that has deeply reflective mirror-like fields, the term especially applicable for Morgan dollars. Those Morgan dollars that meet PCGS standards are designated deep mirror prooflike (DMPL)."

I voted MS64PL due to a minimal amount of marks and moderately deep mirrors that appear to be less than 6".

BTW, I want to buy one of these! I would consider buying this one if she were for sale. If anyone would like to sell me an 1890-CC, please PM me. This one's tough to find!

coppercoins

I think PL by the photo, and what I see are marks for 64, but could be a 63. I voted 64PL and was pleased to see that I was in line with the majority here.

fountainheadgold

I voted 63pl due to marks on cheeks, may go 64pl

Baley

for me, going by the pic, either 63 DMPL or 64 PL
Actually I like it halfway between at MS63.5 PL+ but went with 63DMPL as a compromise value

BigAl

Impossible to distinguish dmpl from pl in photo. If the coin is PL they will give it a 63, however if it's DMPL, they'll bump it to 64. I'm an optimist, I'll go with 64DMPL.

Newmismatist

THe Photos indicate a PL, but could even be DMPL, can't tell from the photos bec/ not sure how deep the mirrors are (Could even be a non-PL w/a great cameo). Probably a high end 63 - lots of marks on the obverse, reverse looks PQ 64 so I'd say overall a 64PL, but if they wanted a 2nd grading fee then it would be a 63PL

relayer

I guessed 63PL. Hard to tell from the photo - the reverse looks more DMPL

Stuart

All: Thanks to those of you who have already graded this 1890-CC.

For those of you who haven't, please take a shot at grading her.

With 22 Votes cast, the Results so far are:

MS-65 DMPL or Better - 0%
MS-65 PL - 0%
MS-64 DMPL - 18%
MS-64 PL - 23%
MS-63 DMPL - 13%
MS-63 PL - 23%
MS-62 DMPL - 5%
MS-62 PL - 0%
MS-61 DMPL - 0%
MS-61 PL - 9%
MS-60 DMPL - 0%
MS-60 PL - 4%
AU-58 DMPL/PL or Below - 4%

dorkkarl

"body bag" wasn't a choice??? in that case, i voted ms-66 dmpl

K S

Stuart

STMan: Thanks for posting the images within the thread, from the image file attachments that I provided of the coin.

BTW, I want to buy one of these! I would consider buying this one if she were for sale. If anyone would like to sell me an 1890-CC, please PM me. This one's tough to find!

DollarDude: Thanks for your detailed evaluation of the coin, and also for the above quote.

There's an interesting story here (many coins have interesting stories to tell -- those that can talk...)

A friend of mine purchased this coin in the late 1970's or early 1980's on my recommendation. The coin may even be part of one of the original Redfield Hoard coin dispersals. It's been off the market for about 25 years...

He's considering selling it, and asked for my opinion of the market value of it. I am considering purchasing it, because I don't currently own an 1890-CC.

In order make an objective assessment of the grade (and resulting market value) I thought that I'd ask you fine people to pass judgement on it so that we could build up a consensus.

I have not seen the coin in person -- so far I only have 4 of his photos - two of which are included in this thread. I'll keep you updated on this for those who are interested...

PS - At about the same time (late 1970's/early 1980's) I bought an 1891-CC in 61 DMPL/PL from Al Adams in Atlanta which I still own as a raw coin... By the time I cherry picked mine, Al had already sold half of the roll or so that he had -- a whole roll of DMPL/PL 1891-CC's back in the Redfield Days!!!

dorkkarl

hey stuart, notice your asking the impossible, to differentiate p/l from dmp/l (or neither) based on a digi-pic. we'd have to know the focal point reflectivity of the mirrors. contrast looks sufficient for dmp/l to me, though

K S

razorface1027

Stuart...IT'S A BEAUTY!.......because it's not in my collection...

BillF

To start, I'm a rank amatuer. So take (or ignore) what I say with a shaker of salt (not just a grain).

I rated it as a -62DMPL. I compared it against two (PCGS) -64's that I have, and that one has a LOT more scratches on it than mine, so just based on that, I almost gave it a -61, but I bumped it a tad since I read on here a while ago that just the CC mintmark usually gives it a higher grade. With that said though, perhaps I didn't bump it enough, so maybe an extra grade, a -63DMPL. The DMPL is hard to really tell from the photo, but it appears to be there.

Stuart

Revised Poll Results as of 39 Votes (in number of votes):

MS-65 DMPL or Better (2)
MS-65 PL (1)
MS-64 DMPL (6)
MS-64 PL (7)
MS-63 DMPL (4)
MS-63 PL (11)
MS-62 DMPL (3)
MS-62 PL (0)
MS-61 DMPL (0)
MS-61 PL (2)
MS-60 DMPL (0)
MS-60 PL - (1)
AU-58 DMPL/PL or Below (2)

Please continue to vote if you haven't already -- Thanks!!

gsaguy

Stuart,

Looks like a 63 but could possibly go 64 if the fields in front of Miss Liberty are really clean. I can't really tell from the single photograph.

GSAGUY

Stuart

Revised Poll Results as of 46 Votes (in number of votes):

Average Grade is: MS-63/64-PL/DMPL

MS-65 DMPL or Better (2)
MS-65 PL (1)
MS-64 DMPL (8)
MS-64 PL (8)
MS-63 DMPL (5)
MS-63 PL (13)
MS-62 DMPL (4)
MS-62 PL (0)
MS-61 DMPL (0)
MS-61 PL (2)
MS-60 DMPL (0)
MS-60 PL - (1)
AU-58 DMPL/PL or Below (2)

Please continue to vote if you haven't already -- Thanks!!

Skipper53

Stuart,
Wish I had more experience grading but I gave it DMPL MS-64 .
The reverse is awsome !!!

Skipper

mgoodm3

The obv seems to hacked up to be 63 or 64 . I put it at 61. I decided it looked shiny enough for DMPL.

Wolf359

MS64 PL, nice cameo too. Super strike, but a marks on the face and the fields keep it from a higher grade. Clean reverse, but no help.

Really nice coin actually.

Stuart

Revised Poll Results as of 55 Votes (in number of votes):

Average Grade is: MS-63/64-PL/DMPL

MS-65 DMPL or Better (2)
MS-65 PL (1)
MS-64 DMPL (10)
MS-64 PL (10)
MS-63 DMPL (6)
MS-63 PL (13)
MS-62 DMPL (4)
MS-62 PL (1)
MS-61 DMPL (2)
MS-61 PL (2)
MS-60 DMPL (0)
MS-60 PL - (1)
AU-58 DMPL/PL or Below (3)

I will take a personal look at this coin when I have the opportunity, to provide you with some actual feedback of it's condition as compared with the photographs that we have been using to grade it.

If I am able, I may also try to take some more revealing photos of it. If so, I'll post them on this forum as a follow-up feature.

Please continue to vote if you haven't already -- Thanks!!

sinin1

I voted MS63 PL -

it is very difficult for me to judge how deep the mirrors with your photo - there is a guy on Yahoo that sells dollars and photos them at 90 degree angle to some flag stamps (coin up and down with stamps coming to camera)

There are some marks on cheeck and field making a 63 comfortable to me - but would not argue either way + ro - 1 pt from picture

Nice frosting but DMPL and PL are related to being able to read print at 2-4 inches (PL) or at least 6 inches (DMPL) - would not be surprised at no designation or DMPL

I would be surprised if bodybagged for artificially frosted but notice on obverse the letters show very little compared to the Morgan head.