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PSA raising prices and threatening Ft. Washington promoter??

That is what Greg(BOTN) hears and is reporting on the SGC boards.
Unless GAI is made to move they will pull out.

-thought both were interesting and deserved mentioning here.
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Comments

  • Any facts?
  • sorry, double post
  • Which thread? And a link would be nice. And I did not understand the second sentence.



    BRF
    Babe Ruth Was The Bomb!!image
  • DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    Greg calls it a "very reliable source".

    On first, psa will raise prices 1/04.

    On second, PSA wants GAI to move--GAI resisted--promoter reported to be sticking with Rocchi/Baker and will give them PSA's spot if PSA follows through on their threat to quit show if GAI is not forced to move.

    Davalillo
  • DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    Do not know how to do links but it is www.sgccard.com--then look for message boards and it is posted under something like "The Great Grading Debate".

    Davalillo
  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is it as reliable as the GAI/SGC merger rumor? Lots of "reliable sources" out there. Lots of inaccurate predictions.
  • DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    Who knows?

    Both though have a ring of truth to them and Greg is a solid guy.

  • Davalillo
    Post some facts or direct information rather than just rumors.

    "My first cousin heard that my Aunt said that my grandmother told me that PSA was going to merge with PRO and begin grading newspaper cutouts."

    Ugh- I vote SM1 kill this thread.

    Mrc32
  • Davalillo,

    You have over 20,000 psa graded cards. How many cards of the other companies do you have. Under 10?

    That is a significant investment in PSA and certainly entitles you to gripe about whatever you feel like hurts the value of your collection.
    I also am concerned about preferential grading given to big submitters. Anyone that collects vintage cards and buys on ebay knows who the main recipients of such treatment are.

    Now, are we to believe that PSA is of such high integrity and character that nothing like this could happen. All it would take is a little under the table payoffs to the graders. How about the $$$ difference we are talking about in 7's to 9's?

    If we can have corporate scandals throughout our economy, including the accounting firms, then it can certainly happen at PSA without any real oversight.

    Just because I say that it CAN happen though doesn't mean that it is. I would hope that management would understand that the integrity of the grading process is the essential to the viability of the company.

    Davalillo, you won't buy or convert your collection to SGC, BGS or any other service because you know those vintage cards won't bring as much. As for raising prices, I'm all for it if PSA can get it, and you should be too, because that it simply an indication of the strength that PSA has in the marketplace. Don't get your feelings hurt just because you perceive PSA to be arrogant and lack customer service. Maybe you should sell your collection and buy the company and change things!

    In the end, this is like any other market, there will be consolidation but we all know that PSA has such a big "first mover" advantage that it will be difficult to overcome despite their deficiencies. And despite such deficiencies, you still own over 20,000 PSA cards, for better or worse.
  • aro13aro13 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭
    Botn has made quite a few posts criticizing PSA. What I cannot figure out is if he is so upset with them how can he keep auctioning their recently graded cards?
  • DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    Nosoupyou,

    I'm fine with raising prices. I can submit at $4.50 and do not believe that will rise much.

    I agree with the rest that you say.

    I just think its interesting even though the famous MRC32 doesn't like it(ha!)


  • << <i>I can submit at $4.50 and do not believe that will rise much. >>


    Wow! you pay way too much. I submit mine for $4.25.
  • Runnerforlife,

    Hey--maybe we can set up a deal I can submit through you!!!

    Dav
  • I also agree with what Aconte says in that PSA will come to their senses because PSA needs Fort Washington more than the Fort Washington show needs PSA.
  • schr1stschr1st Posts: 1,677 ✭✭
    Who is Rober Maris?
  • VarghaVargha Posts: 2,392 ✭✭
    Hey, we all dig rumors or we wouldn't spend time on these threads.

    BTW, I heard that zardoz is considering a sex change back to his original gender.
  • David,

    Of course. Some people(like MRC) are just looking for a reason to criticize me.

    I am inching up on your 1949 Bowman Set in the Set Ratings--it helps to have a stationary target.

    Jim
  • VarghaVargha Posts: 2,392 ✭✭
    I still have a place in my heart for that set. There's something about the crude design of them that is endearing. My favorite card is the Satchel Paige card because it and the 48/49 Leaf card mark his card debut. The Doby card is also a cool one.
  • RobBobGolfRobBobGolf Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    Wouldn't a price increase be reflected in the value of our allready graded PSA cards. In other words, I see the price increase adding value to the PSA cards I allready own. A price increase would more than likely slow down the rampant submissions of common cards. Also, should submission prices increase, you dang better know how to closely grade a card in raw state, I know I gamble from time to time, but if it costs more for a submission, I will hesitate to send in as many cards.

    anyway, I hope it's all rumor, or blown out of proportion.


    RobBob

    Serving Ice-Custard-Happiness since 2006

    image
  • Sounds like sour grapes to me. All of a sudden, BOTN, who is persona non grata at PSA, has inside info??
    Frank

    Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
  • The rumors concerning my sex change are absolutely false. I am however considering a species change.

    Ah, yes.....the GAI/SGC merger "rumor". Never gonna let me live that down LOL.... but everything else has been on the money. Why is that? Gee, could it be that certain parties were lying when the denials were flying?

    You know, one day I'm going to get so discouraged and pissed at this industry that I'll start talking.
    THE FLOGGINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES
  • Actually, while I'm on a roll, CU recently raised the grading price in their PCGS division. "Modern" went from $8 to $12, and there was a similar rate increase with the "economy" level which went to $16. Turnaround on the economy is around 60 days now.
    THE FLOGGINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES
  • what is the latest with the idea
    of going to a ½ point scale?

    and what is the latest about the
    "New Holder" that was supposed
    to prevent the WIWAG type crime?

    and what is the latest on the ticket grading
    services that are happening for "certain dealers"
    but not yet offered to the public?

    and what about the reasons for the
    Required membership to submit cards?
    Doesn't THAT gove them more than enough
    extra money?! Why are they doing all they can
    to drive business away?

    imageimage
  • VarghaVargha Posts: 2,392 ✭✭
    It's a business.
  • Exactly!

    The place is not a charity, and they are free to charge whatever they want for their services. As enlightened consumers, we are free to give them our business or not.

    Admit it, we'll all pay more....we're plastic junkies!
    THE FLOGGINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES
  • VarghaVargha Posts: 2,392 ✭✭
    Famous final words: "I could quit at any time if I wanted to."
  • i get $3.50 for commons and crossovers, but $6 for stars (baseball only)
  • BasiloneBasilone Posts: 2,492 ✭✭
    I am only charged $2.13 per submission.

    Seriously...how come the guys who say they receive reduced rates always seem to hide their identities. (except Davalillo)



    John
  • murcerfanmurcerfan Posts: 2,329 ✭✭
    I demand free grading and preferential treatment or I shall start a rumorimage


  • << <i>I demand free grading and preferential treatment or I shall start a rumor >>

    He!! Start a rumor anyway it is so much more rewarding than free grading and preferential treatment.
  • Boys,

    I think the main point underlying this whole thread is "We're focked like Scottish Hookers in an Irish Rugby team's locker room".

    What's sad is we all love our cards. We love the hobby. Each card, regardless of condition, has a story behind it. We get lost in our cards and they represent so much more than we can even express. However, PSA doesn't giving a flying fock about us, our cards or Fort Washington. They care about making money. They are no different than Microsoft, McDonalds or Disney. They want your dollar. A PSA slab job is the same as a Big Mac, Windows 2003 and a Mickey Mouse anal probe. They are designed to take your money.

    The population report is totally skewed. The details of WIWAG have never been released. We have no idea what dollar value of cards were switched. We all have cards in our collection that are probably WIWAG jobs. PSA was careful to keep a very precise bell curve to protect card value. This meant it was almost impossible for the small collector send in a vintage star and pull an 8. Now with the WIWAG fiasco, PSA cannot possibly give a low pop grade to a 20 card a year submitter. The high grades must be reserved for authorized dealers. We can get our hands on them in one way - Purchasing them. It's expensive. Also, since many of these cards aren't fully worthy of their grade, they're hard to sell. We've seen too many mis-centered, frayed cornered diamond cut PSA 8s and 9s to pretend they are grader errors. There's a system and a purpose behind PSA's ways. Although it appears that PSA is run by a chimp with a dartboard, I think there's definitely intent behind everything they do. Take more of our money.

    GAI isn't a threat to PSA. However, I imagine the GAI registry that's coming soon has them worried. The possibility that GAI might allow PSA cards in their registry has caught PSA a little off guard. I don't think PSA has to worry. GAI doesn't have a pop report, favors dealers much more than PSA (Huge grading difference standards for biggies vs. little guys) and lacks professionalism. They are still a hack outfit.

    So, what does this all mean? It means nothing. Our love of our trading cards is stronger than any price increase or inter-grading feud. It's impossible to fight a subjective system. PSA cards fetch the highest prices on the open market. Thus, we want our cards in PSA holders. Don't forget many of our misgraded cards were handled by Baker and company when they were at PSA. If they criticize PSA, they are essentially knocking themselves. PSA gambled their brand name was bigger than their graders. They were right and this allowed them to cut some hefty salaries from the bottom line.

    Right now, there are two choices - Slab with PSA or keep your cards raw. Nothing else makes sense. Saving a dollar per card on submissions isn't worth losing whatever percentage for having a SGC or GAI holder. There's no striking or boycotting. There's no changing the system. There's the reality of the hobby we've chosen: PSA is #1 by a mile and they are god until somthing better comes along.

    My opinion,

    Satan
  • Sadly, Satan speaks the truth. The WIWAG situation (not to mention trolling for a higher grade by repeated reubmissions) killed the usefullness of the pop report. Even so, PSA's the best that we've got. Going raw is just stupid in my opinion, and I've got a bunch of "evid. of trimmed" cards to show for swimming in that particular pool.
    I need that 69 Bench ASimage

    image
  • Davalillo
    You flatter yourself if you think I just post to criticize you (though it is apparent from your post your ego is quite large).

    I posted my comments because I am tired of all these "I heard a rumor threads." Though my boredom with such threads will not keep them off the boards I just wanted to post my feelings.

    Just a note to reinforce what others have been mentioning: I too agree that the number of threads relating to discussions about cards have plummeted and that is disappointing to me. This used to be a real wealth of information (though there are from time to time really great threads). The Sports Cards and memorabilia forum has turned into a general sports forum with most posts having nothing to do with "Sports Cards and memorabilia."

    This is why I post less and visit less. There are fewer good discussions.

    Cheers
    Mrc32

  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I get the best rate of anyone. PSA pays me $20 for every card I submit. Please stay tuned to my auction page where I'll be listing a slew of PSA 1 1988 Topps cards.
  • VarghaVargha Posts: 2,392 ✭✭
    Only $20?? If you were a woman, I'd have a name for people like you. I won't take anything less than $100 per card to submit to PSA and that's just for modern commons.
  • BasiloneBasilone Posts: 2,492 ✭✭


    Great post Gemint.....

    Hey....increased costs...less submissions...less PSA 8 cards on eBay...

    guess what...our PSA 8 are worth more.

    John
  • dudedude Posts: 1,454 ✭✭
    All joking aside, one fledgling grading company sent out invites to many of the "big submitters" in the hobby for an all expense paid weekend trip to Vegas and continued to wine and dine these people at the regional shows for the remainder of that year and on top of that gave some of them a significant amount of free grading submissions.

    My gut feeling on the grading industry is that none of these companies are making tons of money right now. Many of you may recall that in late 1999 PSA raised the price of grading vintage commons from $8 to $10 and then a few months later it went back to $8. It was pretty obvious why they went back to $8: many people stopped submitting commons. If there is a price increase, I'm sure that many people will quit submitting and then it wouldn't surprise me if the price increase only lasts for a short duration again.
  • VarghaVargha Posts: 2,392 ✭✭
    Econ 101: Maximize PxQ. That's what matters.
  • FBFB Posts: 1,684 ✭✭
    As far as GAI being next to PSA at the Ft. Washington show...

    If I were PSA - sure, I'd be unhappy and I'd try to keep GAI burried in the back of the room too. But, I also wouldn't vacate the show entirely and give GAI the premier spot at the premier East Coast show.

    If I were GAI - I'd be trying like hell to get a better spot at Ft. Washington than I have right now.

    If I were the promoter of the Ft. Washington show - I wouldn't let any one dealer or company bully me.


    As far as PSA raising their prices - whatever they need to do...

    Its all a delicate balance of revenue versus expenses. If raising the price generates more revenue even after a drop off in submissions - then Wahoo!!! The idea was a winner!!! But, if submissions drop off dramatically enough that the revenues fall below what was being generated before - then like Dude said... that price increase won't last long.

    Frank Bakka
    Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
    Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!

    lynnfrank@earthlink.net
    outerbankyank on eBay!
  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭
    and if it fails and they need to drop prices backto what they were , they can advertise " new lower prices" to try to get new collectors to submit.image
  • qualitycardsqualitycards Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭
    Unless I lost my mind, I do believe that GAI was set up next to PSA behind the food court at Fort Washington, they had a large area, similar to PSA's size and setup. Does anyone else remember this? ...jay
  • Yes Jay, you are correct. There were in between the food court and the PSA booth.

    I remember because I had my cheesesteak slabbed a GAI9.
    Looking for:
    1953 Topps in PSA 8
    1941 Playball in PSA 8.
    1952-1955 Red Man cards in 7 and 8
    1950 Bowman in PSA 8
  • I remember the $10 modern economy service for the short duration it lasted. I sent in one submission and got several overgrades (by usual PSA standards), so perhaps the "higher cost of submission = higher grades" theory is true, there are BGS graders I know that swear by it. Luckily that price went back down to $8/card, and within a year the old modern bulk submission was back to $6 per card, and hence I went from grading about 150 cards per year to grading 500-700 cards per year. If the modern bulk is aborted I'll just switch to BGS. I shreik at the thought of having to do that, but if PSA feels they have to maximize their profits, then so will I.

    I agree with the general sentiment on this topic, I've seen a good twenty rumors pop out about PSA's future plans and so far maybe one or two have come to fruition. Zardoz, is it possible that your buddy Greg has been possessed by an SGC demon that is controlling his thoughts? Have you checked him for the telltale signs like head spinning around, the logo mark of SGC on his forehead, or projectile vommitting SGC Turkey Reds across the room at you? If so we can perform an exorcism, I'm sure Satan will help.
    Jason
    Baseball Card Heaven, the closest card shop to the Las Vegas Strip.

    Our current ebay auctions, and of course BaseBallCardHeaven.com
  • qualitycardsqualitycards Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭
    53KID - OK! Good, so my memory is in tact!


    << <i>I remember because I had my cheesesteak slabbed a GAI9 >>


    With the price of the Cheeseteak, you coulda bought a '68 or '69 Mays, plus it probably tastes better then the cheesesteakimage ...jay
  • 53Kid- Was your cheesesteak still in its unopened pack when it was slabbed?
  • Greg has hardly been possessed by the devil, though were he "vomitting Turkey Reds at me from across the room", I would indeed encourage him to continue doing so. As ungraceful as it could be imagined, I would be dancing pirouettes in my attempts to catch them.

    Yes, I am proud to say that Greg is my pal. I have very few, but he is one of them. He speaks his own mind and never shirks from calling it as he sees it. Moral fiber and backbone.........what the hell is he doing in this business with those attributes?
    THE FLOGGINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES
  • CubFan,

    Unfortunately I had already "opened" my cheesesteak. It just so happened that the cheesesteaks were part of the door prize at the Fort. Ya see, since all the cheesesteaks are actually made the week before, one out of every 100 was personally signed by Mike Schmidt. I thought I had a winner and had to run the risk of opening it. Because then I would have had it PSA/DNA authorized and slabbed by PSA.

    Plus, I then could have flipped it to "MikeSchmidt" of these message boards as a 1 of 1 for his master set.
    Looking for:
    1953 Topps in PSA 8
    1941 Playball in PSA 8.
    1952-1955 Red Man cards in 7 and 8
    1950 Bowman in PSA 8


  • << <i>what the hell is he doing in this business with those attributes? >>

    making money! image

    imageimage
  • WabittwaxWabittwax Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭
    You guys are insane if you think that PSA "needs" Ft. Washington. You east coast guys seem to get lost in your own little world. Contrary to popular belief, any person who lives west of middle Pennsylvania could give a rats behind about the Ft. Washington show. I've never been there and probably never will. PSA doesn't need any one person or show to stay in business. They could pull out of every show in the country and still dominate the marketplace. Their name and credibility are just too strong at this point.
  • It is called free enterprise. If the market will bear the increase in prices, then PSA should do it. If the current model is not working then they need to take advantage of the fact that they are the leader in grading. If they raise prices they can still throw monthly specials to you guys to encourage submissions. Why should a company who dominates its market provide their service below the market standard? This is Capitalism, folks.

    I also tend to think that it is not going to hurt their submissions if they were to pull out of all of the shows. It will be an inconvenience to collectors and dealers who attend the shows but PSA's numbers will not suffer. It also could end up hurting the promoter since turn out may suffer long term.
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