I think Modern Collectors are being taken

dlimb2

Most Moderns Proofs should be a 69 or 70. MS also should be up in grade unless there was a problem with the strike or dies used...then that is a whole new ballgame.

jeffnpcb

There is no thinking about it!! Look at the crap that is MS69-70 and PR 69-70! There isn't a set out there that doesn't meet the guidelines!

cladking

nwcs

Why should they be? I think you are not looking at the whole picture. What about damage the mint causes on the coin? What about hairlines that can get placed on there by a mint employee or a person submitting the coin for grading? What about the million other things that can happen from the time the coin is struck till it's sitting on a grader's desk? To assume it should always be a 69 or 70 is a bit naive to me.

dlimb2

Would you spend the money on a coin that you know would not grade a 69 knowing that there are millions that had been minted...You would be wasting your money on a coin that would never be worth more than the plastic you just had it put in.

nwcs

You're making a great many assumptions. The chief one being that everyone who submits a proof coin knows what it will grade. If it is a newbie, they probably can't see the hairlines or light damage. Maybe the receiving department accidentally hairlines it.

My view on slabbing is that you do it if you want to. Who cares whether it is needed or not? Coins are not a good investment anyway.

sinin1

rarely is the plastic worth more than the coin (face value that is) - with the exception of the Lincoln cents

but the cost of the 3 cents of plastic and the magical insert - well that is another story

dlimb2

"Coins are not a good investment anyway", how can you honestly say that and be a coin collector?

dlimb2

sinin1, when you pay the $13 fee plus the cost of the coin and the shipping is what I was refering to. At that point if you send in a sub 69 coin which millinoins have been minted then the plastic is worth more than the coin.

mdwoods

I think he meant coins are not a good financial investment.

ClausUrch

<< <i>how can you honestly say that and be a coin collector >>



Because, traditionally, there have been much better investment vehicles from which to choose.

AmericanSilverEagleCoins

Well don't forget that any coin slabed today may not come into value for many many many years to come. Very possible that it may not be worth anything until your grandkid gets it. Don't you just wish that someone in your family had the foresight 50-100years ago to grab those Morgans, Barbers or Indian Cents as they came off the line and had them slabbed?

dlimb2

Yes there has been in the past...and should be again...but coins are fun...and sometimes you can come across a coin that someday might be a good investment also. It all depends on how much money one has to spend and how long your investment goals are.

dlimb2

I sure do...what a history I would hold in my hands.

Bear

Coins provide a wealth of enjoyment. In addition, the thrill of getting

a higher grade then expected is like winning a minnie lottery. It only adds to

the enjoyment. Sometimes, things and actions can not be equated to an accounting

of profits and losses. Sometimes the value is in the fun of it.

itsnotjustme

<< <i>MS also should be up in grade unless there was a problem with the strike or dies used >>



dlimb,
I challenge you to go find an MS68 modern (post 1970) Jefferson Nickel (excluding SMS). I'll give you $500 for one in a PCGS slab.

Circ Strike coins are produced in a factory--mass production. They are jingled, jangled, and totally befangled before they reach the banks that distribute them to us. Even in mint sets, MS67+ coins are the exception, not the rule. The only coin I've seen consistently in the 68 range is the 2003-P Lincolns from mint sets.

dlimb2

itsnotjustme, I am not refering to circulated strikes...I am talking about coins from mint sets...I wish you good luck in finding that MS 68 in circulated condition.

nwcs

The mint's production of mint sets has been horrible most years with low quality coins. I defy you to find a plethora of MS68 and higher coins in the majority of mint sets made in the last 2 decades. That just doesn't happen.

Coins are not a good financial investment. And anyone who speculates on coins as a financial investment is likely to face loss.

wondercoin

"Most Moderns Proofs should be a 69 or 70. MS also should be up in grade unless there was a problem with the strike or dies used...then that is a whole new ballgame."

Most Moderns Proofs should be a 69 or 70. AGREED FOR NEARLY ALL COINS DATED 1978-DATE.

MS also should be up in grade unless there was a problem with the strike or dies used...then that is a whole new ballgame. IF "UP IN GRADE" MEANS MS64 OR EVEN MS65 FOR SOME SERIES/DATES, THEN PERHAPS I AGREE. IF YOU MEAN MS68, MS69, MS70 - YOU HAVE NOT SPENT NEARLY ENOUGH TIME LOOKING AT MODERNS. GO LOOK AT 100,000 MORE MS COINS AND THEN SEE IF YOU WANT TO REVISE YOUR COMMENT RE MS COINS.

Wondercoin

1jester

If modern collectors are indeed being taken, then they are allowing themselves to be taken. Time will tell, I suppose, if modern coins warrant 4 digit values.

sinin1

dlimb2 - you seem a little confused with some terminology - big difference between mint set and proof set for quality of coins (as well as the obvious - uncirculated versus proof coin)


if you can pick out the difference from 10 coins I give you that came from rolls and mint sets and tell me which ones came from the rolls and which came from the mint sets, you are doing much better than anyone I know.

dlimb2

wondercoin, I am not talking about coins made for circulations...I am speaking of coins from Proof and Mint sets.

itsnotjustme

dlimb2,
I'm talking about mint sets also.... you will not find MS69s except for rare exception.

eagle7

Modern collectors are not being taken, if you by collectors you mean folks who fill holes in sets. They can get the coins for face value in most cases, nice BU coins. If you mean registry set folks who want to have their name on the best set, then you may possibly be correct. But who really cares about them? I dont. Let them pay some dealer 5000 dollars for a coin which in the next grade down costs twenty dollars. That is their problem, not mine! I dont lose a bit of sleep at night, in fact I laugh about it.

cladking

I deleted my earlier post because at the time it was written I thought
I knew what this thread was about. Now I know I have no clue.

It sounds as though Dlimb2 believes that all mint set coins are very
high grade. This couldn't be less true. Mint set coins are struck with
new dies under increased pressure and are then washed and tumbled
dry. They look far better than the coins struck for circulation typically.
Groups of random mint set coins can be told apart from groups of circula-
tion strikes in virtually all cases even as the size of the group gets small.

This hardly means that all mint set coins are gem. Look at ONE mint set
and you'll be convinced of this. I've looked at a very large number of the
mint sets made in the last generation and a half and have never seen
a mint set that was entirely MS-68. Indeed, if you omit the SMS's, I've never
seen one that was entirely MS-66. MS-65 sets account for less than 1% of
sets for most dates. Most of these were likely assembled piecemeal from
other sets with a good Denver packet from one set and good Philly packet
from another.

Many of these coins do not exist as MS-69's and MS-70's. The mint didn't
take a lot of care making coins that were almost universally hated- go figure.

cladking

<< <i>
Let them pay some dealer 5000 dollars for a coin which in the next grade down costs twenty dollars. That is their problem, not mine! I dont lose a bit of sleep at night, in fact I laugh about it. >>



Modern collecting is fine then so long as some fool doesn't go and spend more than face value for something?

coinkat

dlimb2... just let collectors collect what they like and let it be.

AmericanSilverEagleCoins

Personally I think you better get them while they are cheap today. While I would certainly hope that it does not take 100 years before my Ikes and Kennedys are really worth something, I also understand that it just may take that long. Someday someone in my family 100 years later will open a box a find 1000 Ikes, Kennedys, Silver Eagles and even my plain boring Morgans (which will be over 200 years by then) and hopefully they will be worth something. And they would have been practically free because the Moderns were obtained at face value or small premiums since they are current issue today. The proofs cannot get any cheaper since they were purchased direct from the mint.

wondercoin

"wondercoin, I am not talking about coins made for circulations...I am speaking of coins from Proof and Mint sets."

Yes - I am talking about Mint Set coins as well and the "not veryhigh grade" specimens that reside in them.

Wondercoin

itsnotjustme

Perhaps dlimb2 is talking about modern MS commemoratives. Yes, these are typically MS69 for most coins made.

Bear

In every era of coinage, their are coins of certain years that are awful to behold.

These coins then become condition rarities. The hard clad composition of most modern coins

has lead to a general deterioration in the sharpness of the strike of mint state coins. Even Proof

coins are not all made equal. Certain years are a;most impossible to find with Deep Cameo and

deep clear mirrors. No matter what series one collects, there is always some measure of risk.

But we collectors collect for the love of the hobby and the commeraderie. If one is prudent, studious

and patient then one will in the full course of time find that the collection is worth more then its cost.

What other hobby can one say has been enjoyed and has even made a profit.