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Grading observation between NGC & PCGS
aces1
Posts: 11
What is your personal view between these two services? I recently submitted some walking halfs and others to NGC and the results where very
discouraging. I had two walkers that should have been graded higher than
MS-61 (1943-S)& MS-63 (1943) respectively and I'm waiting for a (1944-P) & 1893 Columbian to come back. Another case in point, a 1851 $5 Liberty Half that was returned from NGC with a BB denoting altered surface, then resubmitted to PCGS. The outcome was what I thought all along, slabbed as XF45.
I think PCGS grades coins more accurately and are more consistant than NGC. Also, have anybody noticed that NGC slabs a ton of American Eagles and you see them being pushed on that ridiculous show called Coin Vault.
My take is that these coins given the era and production used to make them would generally come from the mint as no less than MS-68 to 70 and I don't see why they (NGC) bothers to grade them the way they do. I could go on and on about this subject but want to hear from others on this.
discouraging. I had two walkers that should have been graded higher than
MS-61 (1943-S)& MS-63 (1943) respectively and I'm waiting for a (1944-P) & 1893 Columbian to come back. Another case in point, a 1851 $5 Liberty Half that was returned from NGC with a BB denoting altered surface, then resubmitted to PCGS. The outcome was what I thought all along, slabbed as XF45.
I think PCGS grades coins more accurately and are more consistant than NGC. Also, have anybody noticed that NGC slabs a ton of American Eagles and you see them being pushed on that ridiculous show called Coin Vault.
My take is that these coins given the era and production used to make them would generally come from the mint as no less than MS-68 to 70 and I don't see why they (NGC) bothers to grade them the way they do. I could go on and on about this subject but want to hear from others on this.
0
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may take longer to grade and is stricter. But quality of grading is what I seek and I will
take the best every time. If I do buy a NGC coin, I hold my breath untill it crosses. However,
I dont do that very often.
Camelot
BTW, PCGS has plenty of coins on Coin Vault. And it takes more than a few anecdotal experiences to guage to consistency of any service. Also you are incorrect on the MS-68 to MS-70 assumption. Most coins being produced as business strikes for the mint in the last 20 years won't grade 68 to 70. Commemoratives excluded, of course.
Huh? That's proof? Remind me that I don't want you on my jury!
The two companies are roughly comparable with PCGS about a quarter to a half point tighter in most series. Without a doubt, there are overgraded, properly graded and undergraded coins in both of their holders. Which means that you can get a good deal, get a nice coin or get stuck no matter what you buy. Since quality and price is a continuum and not discrete, there are good deals and bad deals in both holders, no matter what the grade on the label says!
Haven't you learned to ignore FoM by now? If not, you're probably the only person here who hasn't...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
PCGS often undergrades by a point or two the first time, and you need to resubmit two or more times in order to get the coin in the holder it merits.
Because of this one half point bias, PCGS coins of a given grade are a little more expensive (ok, sometimes a lot more expensive) than coins slabbed the same grade by NGC.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
NGC and PCGS are nearly comparable with PCGS being a bit tighter in most series. There is some very overgraded stuff out there in both series. I have found that NGC grades a bit tighter in some areas, especially in their awarding the CAM/DCAM designation IMO.
I am very surprised Bear that a seasoned collector like yourself still relies on the services to justify their worth to you.
"If I do buy a NGC coin, I hold my breath untill it crosses. However,I dont do that very often."
Now, I dont want to anger the bear and that wasnt meant as a flame, I have seen some of the coins that you buy and they are all very nice, but they would be the same coin regardless if they were in NGC plastic or PCGS plastic.
V.r,
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
<< <i>The age old Coke vs. Pepsi debate. >>
Cola sucks, coffee rules!
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Just more proof that NGC doesn't know what it is doing. Stick to PCGS only. PCGS coins are the best! >>
Here goes "CU"s marketing manager again!
<< <i>...I'm really liking this guy.....Ken >>
That sure didn't stop you from kicking my ass on a snipe today!
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Fan of Moderns has only been collecting for about a month. I don't think PCGS is ready to hire someone who is still a minor. >>
LOL, LOL, LOL,LOL,LOL,
<< <i>What is your personal view between these two services? >>
generally, coins slabed by either svc. equally look much better raw.
K S
for me
i buy the coin not the holder and if i see any coins that are not so good in ngc and pcgs holders i pass them by and never think of them again WHO CARES LOL
BUT
if i would see a great coin with extraordinary extraspecial eye appeal that walks and talks and sings to me
and it is a ngc or pcgs holder then it is okie for me
for all the other coins in pcgs and ngc holders i do not like well who cares!! LOL
michael
<< <i>Im not saying dont buy the other services slabs, just dont pay PCGS prices! >>
<< <i>Just more proof that NGC doesn't know what it is doing. Stick to PCGS only. PCGS coins are the best! >>
We need more enthusiastic plastic collectors chanting this mantra, that way some of us can buy those nice PQ NGC coins at bargain prices - keeps the prices down, which when I'm buying, I'm certainly not adverse to.
(BTW, selling your nice coins, whether PCGS or NGC isn't difficult, just look for someone who collects coins).
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
<< Just more proof that NGC doesn't know what it is doing. Stick to PCGS only. PCGS coins are the best! >>
We need more enthusiastic plastic collectors chanting this mantra, that way some of us can buy those nice PQ NGC coins at bargain prices - keeps the prices down, which when I'm buying, I'm certainly not adverse to.
(BTW, selling your nice coins, whether PCGS or NGC isn't difficult, just look for someone who collects coins).
fountainheadgold
Member
Posts: 138
Joined: Feb 2003
Tuesday September 30, 2003 1:07 AM (NEW!)
I can tell you when it comes to grading Saints, PCGS is tougher
WELL WOULD you believe that there are many great saints in ngc holders?? i would be interested in them all the others i am not interested in
lol
also doctor would you believe thawt there are many greayt coins in ngc holders?? lol
michael
may take longer to grade and is stricter. But quality of grading is what I seek and I will
take the best every time. If I do buy a NGC coin, I hold my breath untill it crosses. However,
I dont do that very often.
well i might not be as smart as you in coins but for me i alwaYS BUY THE COIN NOT THE HOLDER LOL
but i guess to each his own
michael
<< <i>BTW, PCGS has plenty of coins on Coin Vault. >>
Are they selling pcgs PR or MS 70's? I have not looked at that show in along time.
I checked their web site I see they are selling some.
They even have a 1901-s barber quarter in a g4 pcgs holder for $4,850.95 s&h: $25.67.
http://www.shopathometv.com
<< <i>Well I have just as many saints in ngc holders as pcgs , i always buy the coin, that is why i have many ngc holders, but I do think all in all pcgs is tougher on saints >>
This has been my expierience, as a matter of fact, its how I ended up here! As soon as I started buying the higher priced Gold and realized there were a lot of fakes out there, I started putting more faith into the grading services. I soon figured out that when you lined them up, PCGS was the most consistant and conservative! I wont argue with NGC being number 2, but that didnt change the fact that they were a far cry from PCGS! Folks, what I saw was night and day, thats why I am so passionate about PCGS! Down the road, when I started collecting the Modern Gold, I saw the same thing!
Having said that, you tell me what Im suppose to think! I come here and find collectors telling me the same thing about other series!
<< <i>thats why I am so passionate about PCGS! >>
passionate? you mean like, crazy-eyed, foaming at the mouth, drop your pants passionate?
oops, thought that was fan-of-moderns babbling there for a second....
K S
I've found that NGC is usually about a quarter of a point tighter on the reverse and PCGS is usually about a half a point stricter on the obverse. However, in recent days, ANACS has really been tough on the third side of the coin. I agree, PCGS really seems harsh on any nicks on the coin; but NGC seems to really hate uneven toning while ANACS definitely has a blast white bias. Strike seems to be the dominant trait that PCGS is looking for while NGC really seems to value the eye appeal. Although, if the coin was minted in any year ending in a prime number....PCGS is always going to be the tougher service.
Why do I even open these same old threads? Yes, I am the idiot.
I'll take PCGS' grading in general over NGC any day. I'm not a fan of slabbed coins but if it's high dollar, PCGS is the way to go for accuracy and authenticity.
Mojo
-Jim Morrison-
Mr. Mojorizn
my blog:www.numistories.com
PCGS in many cases is stricter in it's MS grading. Stricter does not mean better and that stricter grading is in many cases reflected in the pricing as Baley mentioned.
<< <i>ANACS definitely has a blast white bias >>
i can confirm that, having discussed this issue w/ 2 of the anacs graders. your observation is dead-on.
K S
As for the difference between the standards, your perception of the two will be solely determined by your own internal grading standard (if you have developed your own). The grading teams at both services are comprised of very skilled coin people who typically have years of experience in and around the business. If one team calls a coin 65, and another calls a coin 66, why? Which is correct? What qualities did they value most? Which flaws bothered them most? What is the correct grade? Who got cheated, the submitter or the seller? Are the coins valued the same by the market? Would they receive the same grade on resubmission? Man I don't know, and really don't care.
I know the people who evaluated the coin are GOOD, and can put me in range to make my own decision regarding value. Isn't that really all we want them to do? If you ask me, Q.David Bowers had it right when he implored collectors to use the holder only as a guide and make your own decisions.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>For me, I've simplified my collecting habits to buying a coin I really like at a price I feel is justified by the coin. I truly respect the opinion of the professional graders, but in the end, I'm still spending MY money for the coin. They are often my advisors / instrustors / mentors, but never my chief financial officer >>
1 of the finest observations every spelled out on the forum. thanks, dheath.
K S
I concur! PCGS loves a great strike....
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