Options
Idiot Dealers You've Wanted To Kill At A Show
PSAtan
Posts: 164
I encountered a guy a little while back that had a PSA 7 MK card. It was a tough card that I needed and the mark wasn't too harsh on the eyes. I asked the guy what he wanted and he quoted me over SMR for a PSA NQ. Okay. Why not take a shot and see if you're dealing with a schmuck? I politely told him what the book value of the card was in PSA NQ and went on to give him the price for the card in a PSA 5 because the set registry deducts two points for a qualifier. The guy's smile turned to a sneer. He told me qualifiers drop the card a single grade. I told him I thought he was mistaken; A qualifier deducted two points. The PSA desk was a few feet away so I suggested we confer with the reps in attendance. He basically told me to fock off. I was entitled to my opinion and he was entitled to his.
Now, I'm not John Nash, Einstein or Freud, but I am smarter than Ben Affleck. I said this wasn't a matter of opinion. We could take six steps and find out about the policy. He became belligerent. And, I split before I jumped his showcase and beat the shat out of him.
It's hard to argue with hard fact. If you said a team was allowed eleven men on a football field in the NFL, I could disagree. However, there's a concrete answer. We could watch a football game and count the men. There's a legitimate answer. After viewing, I'd have to admit I was wrong. However, if I refused to watch a football game I could carry on my opinion without being proved wrong. Instead, I'd seem like a simian retard that ate his own shat and thought his toes were parasites that attached themselves to acquire lint.
This is one isolated incident, but the overall tone of the encounter is something I find quite often at a show. Paying two hundred dollars gets you a table, but it doesn't give you the right to be a pr1ck. I'll never go to another show again. I'm sick of fockheads giving me dirty looks when I ask a price. Do you want to sell the card or sit there on your fat bottom? I'm also tired of having dealers attempting to sell the cards I'm showing them to nearby patrons before a trade is finished. Every single time I get home from a show, I feel dirty. I feel like I just left a cell in Bellvue. Some of the people displaying at the show are kind, but overall there's a twilight zone aspect that fills the room. These dealers remind me of toll booth collectors I've encountered on acid. Their arms are long. Their head are tiny. And, they have sweat stains under their arms in heavily air-conditioned rooms. Most of these numbnuts would make good sleazebag private detectives. They're seedy.
I'm sure the rest of you have kocked (Good filter system) your fist at one time or another. Anybody want to share?
A little sympathy for the devil, huh?
S.
Now, I'm not John Nash, Einstein or Freud, but I am smarter than Ben Affleck. I said this wasn't a matter of opinion. We could take six steps and find out about the policy. He became belligerent. And, I split before I jumped his showcase and beat the shat out of him.
It's hard to argue with hard fact. If you said a team was allowed eleven men on a football field in the NFL, I could disagree. However, there's a concrete answer. We could watch a football game and count the men. There's a legitimate answer. After viewing, I'd have to admit I was wrong. However, if I refused to watch a football game I could carry on my opinion without being proved wrong. Instead, I'd seem like a simian retard that ate his own shat and thought his toes were parasites that attached themselves to acquire lint.
This is one isolated incident, but the overall tone of the encounter is something I find quite often at a show. Paying two hundred dollars gets you a table, but it doesn't give you the right to be a pr1ck. I'll never go to another show again. I'm sick of fockheads giving me dirty looks when I ask a price. Do you want to sell the card or sit there on your fat bottom? I'm also tired of having dealers attempting to sell the cards I'm showing them to nearby patrons before a trade is finished. Every single time I get home from a show, I feel dirty. I feel like I just left a cell in Bellvue. Some of the people displaying at the show are kind, but overall there's a twilight zone aspect that fills the room. These dealers remind me of toll booth collectors I've encountered on acid. Their arms are long. Their head are tiny. And, they have sweat stains under their arms in heavily air-conditioned rooms. Most of these numbnuts would make good sleazebag private detectives. They're seedy.
I'm sure the rest of you have kocked (Good filter system) your fist at one time or another. Anybody want to share?
A little sympathy for the devil, huh?
S.
0
Comments
I thanked him for his time, left him the cards to put back and left fantasyland.
But, when I was running card shows in New Jersey, back in the mid 80's - I had a dealer who I should have realized was trouble from the beginning... The first show that I ran, he called a week before the show and said that he was considering doing my show... But, with his reputation, he'd only do it if he had a primo, I'll call it "the Mr. Mint" seat" right in front of the door. He explained that as a new promoter, that I'd have a tough time convincing dealers to do my shows until I proved myself.
Well... I explained that "no, I'm sorry - I really have never heard of you..." and that he was #17 on the waiting list. Two shows later, the guy finally calls in early enough to get in...
The show started at 9 and by 10:30 I have a father and 8/9 year old son come to me and tell me that they had bought a box of 84 Topps wax and found that there was not one star in any of the packs - and that the dealer refused to do anything about it. I asked to see the cards and sure enough, the predictable runs that lead up to the Mattingly and the Strawberry, Gwynn, Ripken and others had a Joe Schmo in its place. Thirty six packs with 15 cards apiece and nothing valued more than 50 cents.
I told them - don't worry - one way or another, they'd get a refund.
We went in to see the dealer and I nicely explained to this guy probably the same thing that that they had with a slightly more "if you fix this, I will remember that you have done me a favor" tone... But, instead, he accused the kid of stealing all of the stars and wanting his money back - that his material was good!!! So, I saw another couple of the same box still sitting on the table and asked him if that box was "clean" as well. When he acted offended and said "of course!", it was easy enough... I handed over the $18 for the box and told him that I was going to open it right there and if there were no stars, then he was done for the day and that he could pack up and go home. Then he started back pedaling and saying "well, I can't vouch for every one that I buy boxes from!!!". So, I asked him again if he'd refund their money and he said "No, what would I do with a box of commons???" I turned around and gave the kid a $20 and told him that he could keep the cards as well and enjoy the rest of the show. I turned to dealer and said "Bob - you're done - pack it up and get out". When he complained that he had paid $60 for the tables and that I couldn't do this, I peeled of 3 more $20's and threw them on the table. I told him to consider the sales he had already made as "a gift". Then I had 2 of my buddies stand in front of his table telling everyone who came near that he was closed. He pouted for about 30 minutes and then packed up and left.
I saw that father and son at almost every show for the next 3 years. And dealer Bob actually tried to get tables at my next show... some people just don't get it and probably never will...
Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
lynnfrank@earthlink.net
outerbankyank on eBay!
Until about 5 years ago, it was commonplace that cards with a qualifier were knocked down one grade--e.g.--psa 8oc's were priced as sevens. This began to change as 7s were more in demand than 8 oc's and not all 7's could cross over. It gained full force, however, when the set registry came out and announced it would treat qualifyers with a 2-point deduction. Since that time, it has been common to treat qualifyers with a two-point deduction. Obviously, there are dealers, however. whoc will try to sell 8 oc's at a psa 7 price.
Davalillo
Besides toll booth operators, what's it like driving on acid? Must be interesting.... As for slimy dealers at shows, I just keep the green in the wallet and move on. I enjoy shows and besides, life's too short.
Think of this hobby like Mos Eisley space port in Star Wars or Barter Town in Mad Max, have all of your weapons available to you, be on your guard, have some solid contacts, and scan the water for radiation. And remember, no droids please.
This summer at the sportsfest I was thumbing through some 75's low and behold a nice Ryan comes about whoaa, put it in the stack keep going hmm nice munson then as I started totaling my damage I really started picking the cards apart. Hmm don't seem right undersize, miscut, put the stack together about 10 short cards out of 20 including munson and ryan. Yo, buddy you trying to sell trimmed cards no their not trimmed. Me yeah they are take a gander. Him Huh by golly your wright pulls them off the table saying thanks for noticing said he bought them from another source.
So the next day I go back to the same table had a Golden Press Book. Low and behold Ryan and Munson were back on the table. I just chuckled and said somebody thinks their going to cash in on the Ryan!!!
Make sure you use an antibacterial soap!
Sandy
FB - that is one good story man! I wish I had seen the look on that guy's face. It's sounds to me like you should be running some big time card shows.
I know pretty much know all the dealers and most of the 9 customers floating around...
I came across a new dealer with some pretty nice 1959 topps baseball. Asked if I could take a look, and proceded to "Inspect" the pile of about 300 cards. During the course of looking, the dealer struck up a conversation with me and I introduced myself to him. His reply was "Oh yeah..You're the guy that buys out dealers tables...(chuckle)"...Don't know where that came from, other than sometimes I buy dealers wax and Factory sets for cheap (1988-92 over produced junk deals for $2 a box...), and he must of seen me do this at a past show...
Anyway to shorten the story, I spent about 40 minutes going through these '59's and pulled about 45 cards to purchase. All real nice raw cards. Mostly stars with a few commons.....Well.....The guy holds back the 40 or so stars and says "Sorry...I made a mistake on these...These were cards that I'm sending into PSA for grading, but you can have these commons for $5 each" !!!.... WHAT ??? "These cards were in your case to sell...Right???"......."Gee I,m real sorry, but I want to send these cards in myself"..... I was livid......I was so mad, I couldn't speak..(I know...hard for me ..right...) I spent my time grading for this dirtbag. Come to find out (later) he did the same thing with 2 other collectors...
I left the show in total disgust....
Most of the dealers I meet are there for one reason...to sell cards... Some of them smell bad..some of them aren't the smartest thing that ever hit earth. It seems "The smaller the show...The less the dealers understand about the hobby there in"....So be it.
On the other hand, I find a large group of national dealers that really know their stuff. Joe at Setbuilders comes to mind...Most have great "customer" skills, and most take a bath on a regular basis...
That's my story...
Larry
email....emards4457@msn.com
CHEERS!!
<< <i>Dealers have always been scum, it's a basic fact and the nature of the beast. >>
I resemble that remark, though I bathe regularly.
Dealers set a price for their cards. If you don't want them at that price, don't buy them. You don' t have a God given right to cards at the price you want to buy them for. If some dealers want a museum of cards, so be it. Who knows what the guy has into each card. Maybe he made a bad deal and doesn't want to take his loss just yet. Maybe there is somebody that will pay a PSA 7 price for an 8OC. It's that dealer's call as to what he wants to sell his card for. He risked his capital to buy it, thus he sets the price. Patronize those that provide you what you want at a price you can live with but don't whine if you can't get what you want all the time.
Setbuilders Sports Cards
Ebay: set-builders & set-builders2
Hey Frank...Great handling of a "touchy" situation......
I also produced card shows in the mid and late '80... There was ALWAYS a Bob I had to toss...
(maybe he hit my shows too...LOL...oh well...)
Larry
email....emards4457@msn.com
CHEERS!!
Atta-boy Joe... (What...No show for this Saturday...???....)
Remember....Big party at your table...Boston....Oct 31 - Nov 2..................
Larry
email....emards4457@msn.com
CHEERS!!
<< <i>Most of the dealers I meet are there for one reason...to sell cards... Some of them smell bad >>
Is it so hard to take a shower once in a while?
aconte
PSA does not drop a qualifier an automatic 2 grades. The set registry does, but for grading purposes they put the card in the next grade that it qualifies for. A PSA 8 OC can get a PSA 7, PSA 6 or lower
Let's say you see a book of 1971 Kellogg's football (It's my story, I can dream if I want), and you are interested in buying some or all (depending on the price). Sometimes the typical ("How are you pricing these?") receives a fairly vague answer. I don't want to pick out 30 cards and then find out his prices are too high. It's messy. And unless every card already has a price pre-determined, I often don't want to mess with it. I set up at a few shows about 15 years ago so I know a little about the other side. But, I don't think enough dealers put themselves in the position of the buyer. They are only looking at their business from their point of view.
That said, let's all remember there are some really good dealers out there and we, the buying public, appreciate them.
I have a few hundred extra PSA graded 1971 Kellogg's cards. E-mail for price list. Looking for 1970 Topps Supers in PSA 9 too.
1 If they are selling PRO cards then I assume they are dishonest and won't even look at anything else at their table.
2 If they are selling trimmed cards such as the story Gator told then I won't go back to their table ever again.
3 If they are rude. I work in sales and I'll be darned if I'm going to spend my money with someone who is rude to me.
Other than that, I will pretty much buy from anyone - even those that bath less than daily. I agree with Norty - if I don't like the prices then I just shouldn't buy from them. No big deal. But there is a big difference between someone having high prices and just being a scumbag. I really like going to the national and the large chicago shows because there are a lot of quality dealers there. When I go to the small shows I seem to run into more of the scumbags. Fortunately we have psa to help stop a lot of this crap that used to happen all of the time.
Wayne
There are dealers and collector who believe that it is their right to know what cards that I have sold for what price and to whom. I try to politely avoid the answer. Sometimes this is hard and they will have to settle for "the agreed upon price."
There is currently a dealer who is emailing people with cards for sell that they do not own. I found this out from a customer of mine who called me and bought the cards that were in the email directly from me. Earlier in the day, I received an email asking what the best price I could give him for two cards that I owned. I had not responded to the email before the phone call from my customer who just checked my web site, he had already contacted the email dealer.
Old Vintage Baseball Cards
eBay Auctions
<< <i>I agree that most dearers are slim >>
This, clearly, is not me.
King Kellogg: even though my wife is demanding that I find a show somewhere, anywhere to get me the hell out of the house, I am off the show circuit until the Boston show. I am going to run my E-Bay site until I get carpal tunnel from listing and scanning so much. Party at the Boston show (but not the night they have free food for the dealers)...so likely on Saturday.
Setbuilders Sports Cards
Ebay: set-builders & set-builders2
I forgot the e in slime
Old Vintage Baseball Cards
eBay Auctions
I guess my "d1ckhead dealers" stories aren't so bad. When a dealer pisses me off I just walk away and never think of them twice. There's so many good guys to deal with I really have no time to sweat the small stuff.
I'm in this for fun and refuse to let in the bad.
I had a dealer email me a photo of a card that he wanted to sell to me for around $1000. The funny part was that the exact same card was listed for sale on another dealer's website for about $850. I had been thinking about buying it and both had the same #. I guess using this method you could consider every dealer's inventory as your own.
Wayne
FYI - I had no problem with the dealer setting his price and sticking to it. I just could not deal with a brain that insisted the registry dropped grades one point instead of two. The answer was eleven feet away. Would you enjoy playing Monopoly with someone that moves his thimble in reverse direction and insists he's right? When my grandpa was senile, this was often the case. I cut him some slack because I loved him and he was trying to contact aliens on Mars with his x-ray machine (He was a dentist).
My word of advice to dealers is "be human". There are dealers I like that I've gone out of my way to buy from. I'll pay a little extra because I know they are struggling to move merchandise at times. However, I'll just deal directly with them now. The show circuit is dead. I go to some large shows, but I'm never surprised. Let's face it, with the internet you know the dealer's inventory before you approach his table at the show.
Some real good posts today. FB, you're a real decent man. I guess things will slow down here with baseball playoffs and the NFL kicking into gear. This is the best time of year. It's not burning up outside, the leaves will start to change soon, there's always a good game on the tube and young trick or treaters will soon be drinking their first mini-Stolis after visiting my house late next month.
Be well all,
Satan
Customers go through common stacks - put them all in different order - pick out a handful that are priced and than make a low offer. When you cannot work out a deal they just throw them back in the box. Of course, the next customer that comes by complains that your commons are out of order.
In reality I've met countless dealers and collectors that are genuinely good people willing to share information and help out a fellow collector. But there will always be a steady number of dealers that make you wonder how they can stay in business. What I was really trying to get at was that for as long as I can remember there have been hucksters that you just shake your head at and walk away from. Some of them branched out to The Death of Superman comics, pogs, Hot Wheels, NASCAR, beanie babies, etc. They pilfer The Next Big Thing. Funny thing is that it's been the same guys for the last 15 or 20 years, now I get to deal with their grown kids as well.
I know this sounds elitist, but it really isn't because you'd have to make your own bed. Also, the opium bar would be serve yourself.
All you have to do is promise your soul and you're in,
Satan
You had me at the virgin swine and six thousand prostitues.
Setbuilders Sports Cards
Ebay: set-builders & set-builders2
I assume that you are only kidding about the ten pockets full of cards. I have set up at that show more than ten times.
Old Vintage Baseball Cards
eBay Auctions
Lets lay off the dealers. They are a part of our hobby ecosystem. The buyers will ultimately determine the market...so if you do not like them or their prices just do not buy off of them.
Collectors are probably better off having good relations with dealers...rather than having them dislike you.
Personally...I making an effort to be more positive towards dealers and not lobby against them.
John
Just wondering if you got my email from Friday night?
aconte
Old Vintage Baseball Cards
eBay Auctions
Any suggestions on who's sold their soul this week for fantasy FB?
Thats a funny story. I bought a wax case of 1984's from a Bob dealer from NJ. Not 1 star in the case. Bet he was selling singles.
Perhaps my being 6'5" and he being about 5'8" had something to do with it, but he slinked back to his table. Unfortunately, there was no way to leave the show without going by this guys table, so instead of trying to slink by, on my way out I stopped by, gave him my business card, and told him if he had a problem he could also take it up with the Richmond city police. The next time I saw this dealer was at the next Richmond show, and the head guy (with whom I acutally did the deal), sought me out when he saw me come in and actually apologized. Seems he had talked to other dealers after I left the June show. At the time I couldn't quite figure if he was being real or just putting me on, but at subsequent shows, including the Nat, he was pretty nice. Still however, he had his same buddy at the table working for him, so go figure.
<< <i>Lets lay off the dealers. They are a part of our hobby ecosystem. >>
Well where else can we express our contempt if not towards them? We might find ourselves turning on one another instead.