NOT a hypothetical...

MrEureka

I own a VERY expensive Eliasberg coin. The holder says "Eliasberg". It's toned and it was the only one of its kind in the sale. It perfectly matches the catalog's color plate. So far, so good.

Another dealer owns a similar coin in an Eliasberg holder. He says it's the Eliasberg coin, dipped white. Obviously, he's mistaken. I brought the situation to his attention but he refuses to do anything about it.

I absolutely will not turn him in. I value my relationship with him and have no obligation to protect his clients. But one day, someone is going to buy his coin. Ultimately, that buyer will discover that the coin is an imposter.

If you were me, what would you do?

(BTW, the coins were graded by two different grading services.)

Placid

Nothing.

kranky

I don't see where there's anything to be done. I am curious about one thing, though. Does he believe you, or not?

Russ

Andy,

You should step up to the plate, buy the coin from him at whatever stupid money he wants, crack it out and get it graded correctly.

Russ, NCNE

coinkat

Was there another coin...even if it was not in the sale?

ClausUrch

Where is Cam when you need him??

lordmarcovan

That was gonna be my question- what are the chances of them both being Eliasberg pieces?

EVillageProwler

Andy,

There is not much you can do. Your ethical obligations kind of clash big time with any moral dilemma you feel you have.

EVP

Newmismatist

Andy
IS this an ethics forum question?
What's to do? he's not selling his & you're not selling yours -
Maybe Jadecoin has a customer for the other coin? (opps banned!)
If & when it gets offerred publisize yours & let the debate begin? WHo's got the original auction flip & receipt?

Omigod! THis could be a 200 reply thread

darktone

A few more threads like these and a pedigree will hurt a coins value. mike

jbsteven

Andy

You should buy his coin from him and GIVE me yours..................it is my birthday

MrEureka

JB - Happy Birthday!

Newmismatist - Banned!

Claus - Bite your tongue!

Lord and Kat - No chance!

Russ - Good plan!

Newmismatist

<< <i>Newmismatist - Banned! >>



Andy what'd I do? - what'd I do to deserve the ultimate punishment?

Banned from WHAT?? - You won't sell me your pedigreed coin?? What if I call myself "emeraldcoin"? Will that help?

(IS this like when the wicked witch melts in the Wizard of OZ?)

Am I banished too?

Wait a minute - you can't ban me - you don't have no stinkin banning badge -

MrEureka

What if I call myself "emeraldcoin"? Will that help?

Dunno, but you should try it.

ColonialCoinUnion

If you are going to spend your time trying to get this little error corrected, you may as well go all the way and embark on a mutli-year crusade to identify each and every overgraded coin on the market right now and inform all possible future buyers that they are about to make a large mistake.

kranky

If he doesn't believe your coin is the "real" Eliasberg, that's one thing. If he knows you're right, and he's knowingly going to sell his coin under false pretenses then that's a very different story.

Bugs

Andy...why did you ask if you already knew what you were going to do?

CCU...hummmm...it's you again...you don't answer PM's...I'm still waiting to hear about "due time"?

coinguy1

Andy, if I were 100% certain that the coin was labeled incorrectly, I would tell the other guy (friend or not), that if he didn't let the grading company know, I would.

If he couldn't understand and accept that, it is extremely unlikely that I would value my relationship with him, anyway.

The ironic aspect of this scenario is, that with a dipped appearance and an Eliasberg pedigree, odds are that the coin would bring just as much, were it correctly labeled.

MrEureka

Andy, if I were 100% certain that the coin was labeled incorrectly, I would tell the other guy (friend or not), that if he didn't let the grading company know, I would.

Mark - I don't mean to sound glib about this, but WHY?

LucyBop

Hey!!!!!!!!

I'LL DO ALL THE BANNING AROUND HERE THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

Stuart

Happy Birthday Jason!!

relayer

I think you should post a thread here asking if you got screwed

Conder101

<< <i> WHo's got the original auction flip & receipt? >>


The grading firm probably got it when the coin was submitted, and they threw it away after slabbing the coin. After all, what would you want it for? It's just history.

BASEagle

Please explain this statement:



<< <i>He says it's the Eliasberg coin, dipped white. Obviously, he's mistaken. >>



Please explain why this is "obvious". Not a flame, just asking. Don't understand how you can determine a coin's pedigree by just looking at the coin, with no other reference. There is more than one "Eliasberg" coin, right?




Mike

kranky

BASEagle, MrEureka said his coin was the only one of its kind in the Eliasberg sale, implying that the other dealer's similar coin could not possibly be the one from Eliasberg.

dorkkarl

the jade boys did the honorable thing, & asked pcgs to remove an erronious pedigree from the mkt-place, so that a future buyer wouldn't get nailed. if you don't do the same thing, you're honor sucks.

K S

MrEureka

if you don't do the same thing, you're honor sucks.

Yeah, I was afraid of that. Glad I asked.

boiler78

Dork- I don't see how Andy can compel PCGS or the other dealer to remove an erroneous pedigree from the holder of a coin that he does not own! BTW- I have known and dealt with Andy for at least ten years now and his integrity/honor has always been above reproach.

coinguy1

Bolier78, I agree with you. But, that doesn't mean Andy shouldn't at least go to the (minor) effort of letting the grading company know of their error. After that, it's out of his hands, even if not out of his and our minds.

redcents

PLEASE let's not start another thread about trying to get "the company" to compensate someone for having a mistakenly labled pedigree

dorkkarl

then why do you claim to believe in plastic, swear by plastic, live by the plastic, yet not demand the highest level of honor where the plastic is concerned? what does that say about your ethics?

what it says to me is that as long as you ain't the 1 getting SCREWED, then to he11 w/ it. sure, that's just the kind of dealer i want to do business with

K S

dorkkarl

<< <i>Dork- I don't see how Andy can compel PCGS or the other dealer to remove an erroneous pedigree from the holder of a coin that he does not own! >>

not saying he can COMPEL the other dude to do it, but he can ASK him to, & show him the harm in not doing so. whether or not the other dude carries through, that's another issue. but andy's honor is compromised if he doesn't reveal the issue.



<< <i>BTW- I have known and dealt with Andy for at least ten years now and his integrity/honor has always been above reproach. >>

not any more, it ain't. not if he doesn't show integrity here.

K S

SethChandler

Kind of reminds me of a girlfriend that I once had. I thought my name was all over it, but apparently not, others were "pedigreed" to her too.

Andy,

Did you submit the coin in the B & M auction holder? If so, I wonder what proof the owner of the other coin used to show the grading company of the Eliasberg pedigree? HMMMMM....

Seth

Bochiman

Reading this thread, here's what I see/think:

Andy knows a dealer who likely (positively in Andy's mind) has an erroneous pedigree on a coin (since he has the "real" one).
Andy has told the dealer...dealer blew him off.
Andy doesn't want to press things because he values his relationship with the dealer (for buying/selling ).
Dealer will likely sell coin sooner or later based on pedigree.
Customer will get rooked.
Andy wants to keep relationship with dealer who would seemingly rip someone with Andy knowing it will happen?

What if the shoe was on the other foot? I don't think Andy would want to be the one getting ripped off (I wouldn't).
I wouldn't want to continue dealing with a dealer who would do that. Would anyone else?
Must be getting some really good deals from this dealer (well, if he would rip someone on a pedigree, he probably rips people big time when he buys from them, so there are probably some good deals to be had???)

Anyway, maybe I am completely wrong, but that is just what jumped out at me when I read things in the thread.

Mark/Coinguy1....once again, you are quite the person/dealer...I will find it a pleasure to finally deal with you someday soon when I get some more funds and can buy some of the things I saw on the pinnacle site.

Ron

AmericanSilverEagleCoins

If the other guy is unwilling to take the risk that his is a an error, would it be a smart move for you to re-verify yours is the sole authentic piece? By showing that yours is the authentic coin, by deductive reasoning that would make his an error.

LAWMAN

Troubling from both legal and ethical aspects. If dealer sells the coin to unsuspecting buyer, you do not want to be anywhere around or have anything to do with the sale. If you are right, then dealer is in a position to be making fraudulent representations about his coin being the ONLY Eliasberg coin of its type. You know he is going to be comitting the fraud. If you know or do business with the buyer, you probably have no duty to come forward and speak, but you ARE actively concealing a fraud and allowing it to happen (ie., arguably a consipracy to commit the fraud). People have been sued and spent lots and lots of attorneys fees (which could have bought lots and lots of fine coins) for less. Be CAREFUL. (remember, a chimpanzee can file a lawsuit if he has: 1) a typewriter, 2) stack of paper, and 3) the filing fee -- whether or not it has legal merit, if you are the one being sued, you have to pay to defend it.)

MrEureka

If you are going to spend your time trying to get this little error corrected, you may as well go all the way and embark on a mutli-year crusade to identify each and every overgraded coin on the market right now and inform all possible future buyers that they are about to make a large mistake.

CCU - After reading Bochiman's post, I now realize that you may have something there.

Lawman - Do I have an obligation to warn all the bidders every time I see an eBay scam? If not, why is that situation different?