Information on a Morgan $ anyone?

CoinHunter2003

I saw a Morgan up for sale on Ebay & I tried to upload the picture but I'm not having
any luck getting it to the post. It is advertised as:

SEGS Holder that states: 1921 VAM 1 MS 62 "Obverse/Reverse So Called Zerbe Dies"

Anyone know anything about this type? What's a good price on it? Is SEGS close to reliable?

Thanks for your help on this.



Alex

coinguy1

Alex, a number of Proof 1921 Morgan dollars were struck from "Zerbe" dies, but, since the coin you mentioned is not a proof, that is pretty much meaningless. Based on my observations, SEGS is often unreliable. I would pass on the coin, under the circumstances.

jhar

Is This what you are looking at.

Louis

Strange, this is the 3rd I've heard of in the last couple of weeks that was certified by SEGS as being struck with the Zerbe dies.

CoinHunter2003

That's the one J'har. And I think I'll take the advice of some very fine folkes here
and pass on this one. I would have submitted for regrade & attributes at ANACS
anyway. But I guess I'll pass. Thanks everyone.

Alex

Wolf359

These coins were receiving premiums of 2x to 3x 1921 Morgan dollars a while back. Problem is SEGS has lost credibility in the marketplace.

The proof (ok, so it's not a proof to some people) dies used to strike 200+ Zerbe's in 1921 were REUSED in the the latter part of 1921 on business coins. These coins have the same die diagnostics as a Zerbe, but are business strikes and not the rare Zerbe. Because it's a proof die (there's that word again, I know); the strike is of superior quality. An unknown number of these Business-Strike Zerbe's were made. Possibly a low number or tens of thousands. The actual number is unknown. PCI and SEGS have noted "Zerbe Dies" on their holders for these coins instead of "Zerbe Proof" to differente the two.

Zerbe's were originally struck to appease Farren Zerbe, the designer of the Peace Dollar. The Peace Dollar was delayed until late in 1921 and as I've read things, Farren's temper tantrum (over the delay) actually got the Zerbe's produced. There are also a few (very poor quality) 1921-S Zerbe "Proofs" produced. Because it was a rush job, the Zerbe's were not made with the same quality as other Morgan proofs. Therefore, to some people they are not true Morgan "proofs".

PCGS, NGC, and ANACS all ignore the "business strike" Zerbe. ANACS won't even certify actual Zerbe's as proofs according to Randy Campbell. They don't believe they are proofs.

From the scan, a quick check of the Zerbe diagnostics appears correct though (date position, visible second U over UNUM crack, etc.).

Best of luck and bid accordingly.

CoinHunter2003

Thanks for the info Wolf - I'll leave the Zerbes to find their own fate.

Russ

<< <i>Zerbe's were originally struck to appease Farren Zerbe, the designer of the Peace Dollar. >>



I thought Anthony De Francisci designed the Peace Dollar?

Russ, NCNE

kranky

De Francisci did design the Peace dollar. Zerbe was the guy who pushed to get legislation passed enabling it.

BillF

Kinda off topic, but a lot of times, it seems like somebody asks a question about something completely out of the blue and obscure, and I'm amazed at the wealth of information so many respond back with.

That was a real good explanation/post wolf....

zenny

<< <i> Based on my observations, SEGS is often unreliable. >>



Mark,

Just curious as to this unreliablility - whether it is purely grades, or whether it goes to their attributions as well?

z