A David Hall answer I REALLY like!

Russ

<< <i>Q. I am curious as to what actions PCGS would take if certain coins were submitted for certification. For instance, if a genuine 1974 aluminum cent, 1964 Peace dollar, or 1933 St. Gaudins double eagle were submitted, would PCGS grade and certify the coin and send it back to the submitter? Or would PCGS send the coin back to the submitter with a polite "no thanks"? Would PCGS call the press, or would you call the Secret Service? If such a coin appeared to be genuine, what would PCGS do?

A. Great question Matt,

If we recieved a 1933 $20, 1974, Aluminum cent, or 1964 Peace dollar, we would grade the coin and return it to the owner. Some assert these coins are stolen, but we don't know that for sure...and we have no legal obligation to do anything beyond perform our sevice.

PS...If you have any of these we'll grade them for free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David >>



I think there's a bit of Libertarian in him.

Russ, NCNE

airplanenut

Free I like free!

sinin1

I like that answer as well - I wonder how many exist? has anyone here actually seen 1 in their life?

dragon

Maybe he only said that to draw one of those coins out of hiding?

dbldie55

I guess it's time to dig my aluminum 1964 peace dollar out of storage.

MacCrimmon

<< <i> I guess it's time to dig my aluminum 1964 peace dollar out of storage. >>



Cool! I have a flip-over double strike AH Kennedy on a clad planchet with the 1964 Peace Dollar undertype! Would PCGS grade this error?

fivecents

Atta Boy David.

BigE

Would they show up in the pop report?--------------------------BigE

jonesy

That would be accesory. I find it hard to believe PCGS would do this. Would Southeby certify a stolen art piece??

TheNumish

Actually one time I had a Silver Proof IKE that was off center. PCGS wouldn't grade it because they said there was no way the coin could have gotten out of the mint legally since it wouldn't fit in one of the Brown IKE holders. I thought that was logical reasoning.

Russ

Ooh, Jay, that would be a perfect followup to this! I'd love to see the response. Was Hall running the show at the time, or was it Montgomery?

Russ, NCNE

TheNumish

It was about 12 years ago so I couldn't tell you.

I think it would be interesting if someone sent PCGS an aluminum Lincoln. I would think there would be a lot of discussion with the lawyers before putting it in a holder. I don't think the decision is as simple as David makes it sound. It's just a matter of time until they will be put to the test. Aren't there two coins floating around? I know there is one in the Dallas area.

coinguy1

<< <i>If we recieved a 1933 $20, 1974, Aluminum cent, or 1964 Peace dollar, we would grade the coin and return it to the owner. Some assert these coins are stolen, but we don't know that for sure...and we have no legal obligation to do anything beyond perform our sevice >>

Russ, you might like David's answer above, but, I don't think it makes for good business sense - sorry, Mr. Hall.

Most, including certain governmental agencies, will presume that such coins cannot be owned, legally and, PCGS' not "knowing for sure", is not sufficient cause to overcome such a presumption. As David's free legal advisor (even if he doesn't want me for the job), I would caution him to risk upsetting a customer, rather than a governmental agency, under these circumstances.

ms70

I'll bet a strong offer to buy would follow!

1jester

I wonder if NGC would slab them?

drsvenghali

Why would someone want to take the risk of getting one of those coins graded? Once graded, there is a record at PCGS of who submitted it. Wouldn't take long for the word to get out that PCGS graded one and then the Feds come knocking with a search warrant and someone forfeits an illegal coin.

Bear

Sounds like a twofer, a slabbing and a jailing all for the same price.

Conder101

<< <i>Would Southeby certify a stolen art piece?? >>


Of course they would. Part of identifying it as a stolen work would require that it be authenticated or certified in order to be sure it was the stolen work. They wouldn't SELL it though.



<< <i>Most, including certain governmental agencies, will presume that such coins cannot be owned, legally and, PCGS' not "knowing for sure", is not sufficient cause to overcome such a presumption. As David's free legal advisor (even if he doesn't want me for the job), I would caution him to risk upsetting a customer, rather than a governmental agency, under these circumstances. >>


The government feels the same way about counterfeits. Now they don't slab the counterfeits, but they don't send them off to the secret service either. They just return them to the submitter. With the coins in question they are doing the same thing but puting them in a holder that says "This is what it appears to be.". I see nothing wrong with that.

coinguy1

Condor, interesting post. I guess, to me, the difference between your (not yours, personally, but ) everyday counterfeits and the items mentioned, is the high profile aspect.

I think someone is much more likely to get involved, take a major stand, etc., for political and other reasons, in the case of, say, a 1933 $20. In fact, that's already happened once, hasn't it? I'm not saying such a distinction is a fair or reasonable one, only that it would likely be made (again).

Russ

I'm not convinced that, in the current environment with the current administration, the feds would really make much effort to go after somebody for possessing one of these coins. They seem to have completely ignored the Sac mules.

Russ, NCNE

BigE

I dont know if they have completely ignored the Sac mules. Policy seems to be helping the Texas person who has managed to hoard eight of them, perhaps he is the only one who can afford to defend his position------------BigE

coinguy1

Good point, Russ - you and Condor have me wavering.........

Russ

Mark,

When you've completely changed your mind, let me know. I'd like to get my '64 Peace in to Hall as soon as possible.

Russ, NCNE

homerunhall

Russ...last time I voted, I voted Libetarian.

Feld...Mr. Vartian totally disagrees with you.

David

coinguy1

<< <i>Feld...Mr. Vartian totally disagrees with you. >>

Hall.... isn't that what attorneys are paid to do?

LucyBop

BANN'D!

khayse

Yeah, Libertarian!

Go Hall!

-KHayse

Coinosaurus

I have a 1964 peace dollar except that it says "quarter dollar" on it and the obverse looks curiously like a seated liberty coin. Do I still get the free grading

MICHAELDIXON

Hypothetically, could I get one done for free at the Baltimore show with a walk through?