How Are Prices of Toned Morgans Determined?
CalGold
Posts: 2,608 ✭✭
Toned Morgans continue to bring strong prices, yet there are no blue sheet/grey sheet or other price guides for these coins. Moreover, there is a wide variety of toning. A few questions for the experts in this area.
How do you determine the value of these coins?
What are the key elements that make one toned coin more valuable than another?
Are rainbow arcs worth more than concentric toning?
Are some colors worth a premium over others?
From observing auction results, it seems that toning like this on a common date coin is worth a huge premium
But toning like this on a better date coin is worth a small premium if any
Clearly the first coin is more vibrantly colored, but at what point does the toning add no value?
CG
How do you determine the value of these coins?
What are the key elements that make one toned coin more valuable than another?
Are rainbow arcs worth more than concentric toning?
Are some colors worth a premium over others?
From observing auction results, it seems that toning like this on a common date coin is worth a huge premium
But toning like this on a better date coin is worth a small premium if any
Clearly the first coin is more vibrantly colored, but at what point does the toning add no value?
CG
0
Comments
Followed by combinations of golds and browns.
Aqua and primary green is also a heavy premium.
Underlying luster and PL fields combined with the above bring the most.
Dark brown brings the least, although I like it alot.
I prefer to purchase coins like your more darkly toned coin (lower one), which usually are available for much less of a premium than vividly toned coins.
I usually like to see full mint luster beneath the toning, so that the toning does not have a dulling or deadening effect on the coin's natural mint luster -- but so the toning complements the natural beauty of the coin and its design devices.
It's fun to find PL and semi-PL surfaces hiding under some darker toning. The grading services are usually more hesitant to assign DMPL and PL grades to such coins because these grades are assigned by measured reflectivity over a certain distance -- and the toning reduces the measured reflectivity distance of the coin...
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Well, not really; but i thought that it made good conversation....
They are both really nice guys that collect/sell very pretty coins...
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
but the Real answer is "right coin, right place, right time"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
at the prices they sell the technicolor jobs. This goes for Morgan with VAM numbers
listed on them. Added treats, IMO don't make that coin any more valuable than a
regular MS 63 Morgan. Besides, I'm too dumb to know the difference between the
real thing & a "shake n' bake".
Alex (just another Morgan lover).
Collecting Morgans in Any Grade
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
islemangu@yahoo.com
See Current Sales on Etsy
https://www.etsy.com/shop/Islemangu?ref=shop_profile&listing_id=4331147333
Interesting question and one that is almost impossible to answer because each coin is unique.
Here's what I look for in the toned coins I buy.
First, what type of toning are we dealing with? Mint bag-toned coins have a different look than end-roll and album toned pieces. How the color was imparted is important when pricing the piece because the end result of each is often different. I find the album-toned pieces to generally be much 'softer' in color and therefore don't tend to bring as much money.
When it comes to mint bag-toned pieces, I grade the color on a scale of A - F, A being the best color and F having none. I tend to favor bright, vibrant colors on the obverse of the coin and surfaces as mark-free as possible. Finally, luster is important. As Louis said, "eye appeal". And to me, eye appeal and luster are closely tied. A coin that possesses the bright color and mark-free surfaces can still look dull if the luster is impaired.
As for individual colors, I tend to prefer reds and greens although one of my favorites has a significant amount of blue. Gold brings up the rear.
I've bought and sold thousands of toned Morgans through the years and after a while, one just gets a feel for what represents value in an individual coin. And I'm still learning.
Hope this helped somewhat.
GSAGUY
Now lets assume that instead of being an 1881-s, it was an 1887-s with a value of $2,800 in blast white. Would its price with the wild toning be $3,520, reflecting the same $720 premium as the 1881-s? If so, the premium would be only 25%. If that were the case, it would always make much more sense to buy toned better dates if they can be found (and I reallze that finding wild toned better dates is an issue in itself). Or would it sell for 10X sheet like the common date coin, making it a $28,000 monster? Or would the price be somewhere in between?
CG
There are a number of collectors around the country trying to assemble complete sets of toned Morgan dollars. Obviously, many dates are really tough to find with attractive toning....some are tough to find with any toning at all.
I've generally found that the more common date coins tend to sell for higher mulitples above sheet price for white coins than do the more rare dates. However, many of the rare date coins, when encountered with toning, are not that attractive.
In the most recent Heritage auction, I purchased a pretty decent looking 1892-CC for a client in PCGS MS63. We had agreed to go to $1800 on the coin but managed to buy it for $1400. The color was pretty decent and the coin appeared to me to be undergraded by a full point so in this case it's hard to use it as a guide for the payment of premium.
Common date toned pieces are just that....common. But the ones that bring really big premiums are generally the creme of the crop......the best of the best. If an 1887-S surfaced with incredible mint bag toning, superb luster, and mark-free surfaces, I suspect it could easily bring 10X's sheet.
GSAGUY
Mike Printz
Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
https://hjbltd.com/#!/department/us-coins
<< <i>Darts and a large dartboard......
Mike Printz >>
Hey Mike..... Your supposed to be getting me that pic on the 67 Walker! Not playing on the forum!
Thanks for the info. I took a look at the Heritage scan of the 92-cc, and looks like a nice coin. Are the colors more vivid than they appear in the scan? Heritage scans can really make a toned coin look dark.
CG
Yes, the coin definitely looked better in person than in the Heritage pic and that's pretty much the norm. It possessed plenty of luster which gave the color some pop!
I'm sure the new owner will be pleased with the piece.
One piece that amazed me was the one that went for $3900+. I looked at the coin (common date) and it had some cool color on the top two thirds. However, the lower third of the coin looked dirty and fingerprinted if I remember correctly. I think this piece had sold for something like $750 in a past Goldberg's auction and that's about what I thought it was worth. Oh well.
Of course, there was one bidder who was aggressively buying toned dollars and I know of at least one other bidder that wasn't happy with the situation and ran him up on a few pieces. Perhaps that was one of them.
GSAGUY
It's coming....it's coming!!! I simply needed a break!!
Mike
Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
https://hjbltd.com/#!/department/us-coins
<< <i>Let me add one thing to the mix as well. And that is the fact the PCGS MS67 common date toned Morgans in the three of four common dates for 67 grades will barely bring three times blue sheet. >>
This will depend greatly on the coin, and will hold true on coins with just average color. I have seen common date 67's that the owners have turned down offers in excess of 10 times Grey Sheet Bid!
well sort of off topic but close to what you asked
toned dollars are common BUT monster toned dollars are really rare!! and what many call monster are NOT monster
only the best toned coins have the best chance to apprecaite in value
for me this means coins showing full obverse rainbows with the brightest green and red covering at least 50% of the surface the best would be the cheek and the left field the coins must MUST be ms64 or higher in my opinion and EVERY COIN MUST HAVE FIERY LUSTRE!!!!
any streaks spots haze fingerprints or other "problems" in the color pattern disqualifies the coins potential as this reduces the eye appeal
buy only the best they will cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to buy
and they rarely enter the market
AVOID>>>>>>>>>>>>
pastel toned dollars reverse toned dollars crescents!!! unless just 35% or less of the coin is untoned yes yes yes thinka bout it and you will see this and understand this concept! and if the untoed area is on the right top or bottom! brown toning hazy black toning etc etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
only buy pcgs and ngc toned dollars!! if you are going to pay top prices
collect toned dollars only because you love them as a hobby for fun if not you will lose your shirt
well these are just my opinions
i am sure many have different views and tastes but the best of the best is per the above
and for me the above is some of the qualities that make the one in a million toned great dollars
as for value and worth well that is for you to deside with your own pocketbook
buy what you like like what you buy
with money you can afford to lose and collect for fun as a hobby
coins are not an investment
michael
edited right after i typed this to correct and clean up my typing errors
<< <i>AVOID>>>>>>>>>>>> pastel toned dollars >>
Michael brings up a good point. I wouldn't say avoid pastel toned dollars, but I would say avoid paying too much of a premium for a common date pastel toned dollar.
<< <i>Hi Louis, Looks like a red x in a box >>
It's working for me, try right clicking on it and choosing "show picture" on the menu that pops up.
what is the web address of your red x?
if it only saved on your harddrive then we cannot see it, only you
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
David
I hope that the others can see it also.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"