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Low grades from BVG - crossover advice needed

uriwvuuriwvu Posts: 10
in PSA Set Registry Forum
I just received the following graded cards back from Beckett and was surprised with the grades given:


1968 Topps Pete Rose #230: Grade: 6.0 (Cent: 5, Cor: 8.5, Ed: 9, Sur: 8.5)

1968 Topps Mickey Mantle #280: Grade: 5.0 (Cent: 8, Cor: 8, Ed: 8.5, Sur: 4)


They are both dynamite cards and I'm surprised they graded so low, despite lknowing all well Beckett's grading reputation.

My questions: Would the one grade, which i diagree with, play such a significant part in the final grade? Are they worth submitting for Crossover? Is so, by whom PSA, SGC? The fact that I used a free Beckett certificate in submission play any part in the grading?

Thanks,
Rick

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    mexisarmexisar Posts: 394
    beckett is harder with centering, so the rose might get a higher grade with psa
    SGC is easier with centering
    Looking for in PSA graded
    1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+
    2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+
    3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10

    Basketball Autos
    1992 Courtside Flashback
    Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton)
    2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game
    UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology
    2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos)
    Press Pass Legends
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    NickMNickM Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭
    If the Mantle got a 4 on the surface, I expect you missed something (light crease perhaps). If the Rose is within PSA's centering standards for a 7, submit it to PSA.

    Nick
    image
    Reap the whirlwind.

    Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
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    PSAtanPSAtan Posts: 164
    Beckett grading is almost impossible to figure out. Sometimes they grade harsher than your third grade teacher, Mr. Simmons, with a mousetrap on his testicles. However, other times cards that are clearly trimmed pass right by their graders. Also, there's seventeen different BVG, BSG, BCCG, PHAGGO holders and services.

    I think what my other personality is trying to say is Beckett uses the weakest grade as its basis. They will knock it up a grade or a half grade when the other grades are way above. Let's look at a theoretical examples:

    Centereing 9
    Corners 9 = BVG 6
    Edges 9
    Surface 5

    PSA won't bust your balls the same way on a card. I don't no anyone actually submitting to Beckett anymore. They might have been competitive, but they really botched it. They tried to please everyone with different grading standards, but we all know you can't please everyone. Some guy is going to want his mineral water to taste like a yeast infection.


    Thank you from a man with split personalities where both personalities are exactly the same. Chilling, huh?

    Satan
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    uriwvuuriwvu Posts: 10
    Fellas,

    Thanks for the feedback. I'm seriouly considering submitting the Rose (min grade 7) and Mantle (min:6) to PSA for crossover. I've considered SGC but I gather they do not hold the weight PSA grades do.

    Final question: in your opinion, if they do cross, are they better at the higher PSA grade or the lower Beckett grade?

    Thanks,
    Rick
  • Options
    GoSoxBoSoxGoSoxBoSox Posts: 1,103
    PSA graded cards are worth more, if that's your question. However, I'd be VERY surprised if PSA upgraded a Beckett graded card.

    VERY surprised.
    There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"
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    srs1asrs1a Posts: 398 ✭
    I agree with GoSox for cards in a BVG holder. I don't think that they will move. I don't agree with an earlier statement that Becketts is tougher on centering -- I believe that this is true for BGS, but judging from what I see on eBAY, it doesn't appear to be the case for BVG. (Isn't it nice to have multiple grading standards -- sure keeps everyone guessing!).

    That being said, I think vintage cards in BGS holders can be a really good investment -- IMHO, they were really clueless and really whacked cards for "interesting" reasons -- like a rough cut. Case in point -- I picked up a BGS 5.0 Clemente Rookie a couple of years ago for a BIN of $500 -- it had a rough cut on one side, so they had given it a 4 for edges, and a 5 for centering (It measured be close to 70/30). I didn't want to risk cracking the card, so I sat on it until PSA started their cross-over service. It just crossed it to a PSA-6. For the unbelieving the BGS ID was 0000311727, the PSA ID is now 30507211.

    Dr S. of the Dead Donkeys MC
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    mexisarmexisar Posts: 394
    srs1a,

    true about bvg, the first one I got disappointed me, since I was used to the bgs tuff standards, for the 70's cards.
    I have several graded as bgs, and they all look undergraded(erving rc, bird/magic rc,ect), the bvg cards are another story.
    Looking for in PSA graded
    1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+
    2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+
    3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10

    Basketball Autos
    1992 Courtside Flashback
    Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton)
    2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game
    UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology
    2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos)
    Press Pass Legends
  • Options
    PSAtanPSAtan Posts: 164
    Crack the cards out and send them in if you think they are better. BVG/BGS isn't a strong seller if you want to unload them at some point.

    S.
  • Options
    uriwvuuriwvu Posts: 10
    Just did some research on similar ‘68Rose & Mantle BVG graded cards on eBay and I’m now ever more sure I got jobbed by Beckett (again a reminder these 2 submissions were freebies).

    Take a look at the grades and give me your thoughts:

    My Rose: 6.0 (Cent:5, Cor:8.5, Ed: 9, Surf: 8.5)
    eBay Rose: 6.5 (Cent:6, Cor:6.5, Ed: 9, Surf: 8.5)

    This one is really unbelievable. The eBay card is similar to mine except that not only is my card clearly centered BETTER, but this one is also miscut on the sides! I guess having good corners doesn’t count for much either?

    My Mantle: 5.0 (Cent:8, Cor:8, Ed: 8.5, Surf: 4)
    EBay Mantle: 4.0 (Cent:6, Cor:4, Ed: 6, Surf:3)

    Not as much beef with this one but I can’t understand how the card on eBay is clearly lower in all 4 sub-grades ( ¾ by a min of 2 grades) and it only gets 1 grade lower overall??

    Bottom Line: This definitely supports the notion that BVG/BGS grading standard is woefully inconsistent.


    My thought now is to crack them and send them to PSA. There’s no way I can’t believe that I won’t get AT LEAST get the same grades for them via PSA and I’ll have the possibility of getting one grade higher.

    Any advice on cracking the Beckett case?

    Thanks again,

    Rick



  • Options
    VirtualizardVirtualizard Posts: 1,936 ✭✭
    Rick,

    I sent you an email response earlier regarding your questions and I was going to add some comments about this topic, but decided against it because I wasn't sure if you cared that much about the grades. From this post, it appears that you do, so I'll post it here instead.

    First, scans of the cards would allow all here to more accurately help you in assessing the potential for a crossover to PSA.

    Looking at the Beckett subgrades, it appears that the Rose is well OC to get a 5. PSA uses qualifiers for cards that are significantly off centered and even if you do have 8.5-9 corners, edges, and surface, the centering would probably get this card a PSA 8OC which is equivalent to a PSA 6 as far as the Set Registry is concerned.

    On to the Mantle: If Beckett has deemed this card to have a surface grade of 4, you can pretty much count on PSA not grading this card higher than it is currently graded in a Beckett holder. Without seeing scans, I would think that you would be lucky to receive a PSA 5 on this card.

    Finally, if you are happy with the cards in this condition, don't let Beckett, PSA, or any other company sway you to think that you need to obtain better cards. For some, the presence of a small wrinkle is insignificant, but could downgrade a MINT 9 card to an EXMT 6 card. If you are interested in high grade examples of these cards, you will probably need to upgrade rather than crack and submit to PSA.

    JEB.
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