Cleaned or artificial toning. How to tell?
jafox
Posts: 17
Hey everyone-
Just got 3 morgans back, and I wonder how long did it take for most of you to get to the point where you could judge a coins MS condition relatively accurately. I submitted the 4 Morgans thinking they were around MS64, and I got back a 64, 62, AU58, and one that came back cleaned. I must admit I was surprised. How long has it taken most of you to get comfortable. Also the one morgan that came back cleaned, how do you know? Are there any tell tale signs? One more question since everyone here has been such a great group in helping to educate. I have read you talking about coins body bagged for artificial toning. How would you know it is artificial toning, and how can you artificially tone a coin anyway? Thanks, but confused regardless, John
Just got 3 morgans back, and I wonder how long did it take for most of you to get to the point where you could judge a coins MS condition relatively accurately. I submitted the 4 Morgans thinking they were around MS64, and I got back a 64, 62, AU58, and one that came back cleaned. I must admit I was surprised. How long has it taken most of you to get comfortable. Also the one morgan that came back cleaned, how do you know? Are there any tell tale signs? One more question since everyone here has been such a great group in helping to educate. I have read you talking about coins body bagged for artificial toning. How would you know it is artificial toning, and how can you artificially tone a coin anyway? Thanks, but confused regardless, John
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Comments
`real` color, or natural color.
I think though that if you were to see a lot of naturally toned coins and learned the look of these coins
you might could more easily spot the `faked` ones.
How are the colors faked? Various ways from simply heating the coin in an oven to using chemical solutions.
Those do most of the time have a different color scheme or pattern.
Its a tough issue because the color, whether its attractive or not, isnt really an indication of real toning or faked toning.
I mean, just because a coin has good eye-appeal and nice toning doesnt make it a slam dunk NT.
Conversely, not all ugly toning is an indication of AT`d. Some do look awfully good thus the term `market acceptable`
A bad dip job or repeated dipping will remove all the luster from the coin. If the dip is not rinsed correct it will often cause the coin to change color in areas, usually around the rims.
In general dipped coins are considered acceptable by the grading services.
cleaned can be from 2 methods as noted -
the first is mechanical, like someone took some sandpaper or a pencil erase and tried to ? make something look better -> if toned is more difficult to see , I like to view the coin from around a 30 degree angle and rotate the coin - usually in the flat fields and usually on the obverse (not always of course) - it takes a little practice to tell the difference between cleaning and die polish marks that were made on the die, sanding/polishing the die before the coin was made - die polish marks go underneath the letters and come out the other side, cleaning or scratches go over the letters
the second type of cleaning is chemical, like someone put it in a strong acid or base too long and stripped a small outer layer off of the coin. The coin loses its cartwheel luster that you see on mintstate coins
I am much better on silver coins than I was a year ago, but still have difficulty on copper coins. Old Lincolns or IndianHeads with nice color usually fool me, and have been chemically cleaned a long time ago and retoned nicely
artifical toning is much more difficult to define - HRH said once in the Q&A forum, that they ask themselves how the coin could have become that color naturally.
How is it done? one or a combination of heat, chemical, gas ( not the stuff for your car but stuff like sulfuric acid fumes) , foreign material