Kellogg's --

thejam

14 months agq kelloggs was hot; how has the market change and are there niches that are/will remain hot?

thegemmintman

Speaking for the '70 Kellogg's, supply is finally outstripping demand on PSA 9 commons. What is surprising is how well the star 9 prices usually hold up. Collectors outside of the Kellogg's Kommunity buy their favorite stars up regularly. There is still great demand for 10's though, and there are never enough to go around.

A Kellogg's revelation that was brought to my attention at the National by KING KELLOGG and Machodoc was just how incredibly difficult it is to obtain raw '75's. No one is absolutely sure of the reason, but it's becoming a debate whether the 71's (always a given to be the most rare) or the 75's are more rare.

Machodoc

Yes, 1975's are incredible tough, and one now should include graded 1979's in that category as well. 1975's are just tough overall - the supply of raw cards is very low, and no one - even that font of all K wisdom, the King - really knows why. 1979's are plentiful in raw form, but the supply of graded 1979's is very tiny. For some reasons, 1979's have not aged well. I have dozens of 1979 unopened factory boxes, and earlier this summer opened up 7 or 8 to send in for grading. NONE of those sets had cards I felt deserved anything better than a 6 or 7. There must have been a production problem that year, as the major flaws were clouding and very dark and dank backgrounds. The boxes I opened also seemed to not be cut very well. Perhaps I will go back and reexamine some individual cards, but overall 1979's seem not to age gracefully. In contrast, I have about 35-40 unopened cello packs of 1970's, and those are all nice, clean and brilliant!

For my money, the single rarest K to find in ANY grade is the 1981 Winfield #21. King, Stump, and myself (and no doubt others) between us have sent in dozens for grading and they have all come back MC. This card is the last on it's sheet, and for some reason it's been a real problem. What I would give for a 1981 Winfield PSA 9 or 10, as it's the only card keeping me from a complete set for that year.

Any other questions, just ask. I'm sure between us K Kollectors we can give you the proper misinformation on this unique and fun set!

Machodoc

This will be somewhat redundant, but I'll expand a little more on the relatively rarer K card & sets. This is from my experience, and also what I have heard from others, and I'm sure that some of my fellow K Kooks will chime in with their 2 cents.

Toughest high-grade single card: 1981 Winfield, 1971 Chris Short. (there are of course tough variations - I'm sticking to "base" card here)
Rarest Raw Sets: 1975, 1971 (in that order)
Toughest Graded Sets: 1975, 1979, 1971 (in that order).

EOMINT

kellogs=sportflics=not really baseball cards at all. more of a novelty than anything else.

thegemmintman

Uh yeah right Eomint.

thejam

what about the market for 10s vs. 9s (i, too, have problem with winfield miscut)

thegemmintman

Machodoc, that's a great analysis right there. Based on what I've been hearing your pecking orders of difficulty look very reasonable. Of course the '71 K-fans will probably have something to say about this .

Also what still always remains is that the 1970 Kellogg's is always going to be the Koolest looking K set.

thegemmintman

Thejam, the only other thing I could add is that the 1970 Kellogg's 10's consistently get considerably higher prices than in the 10's for other Kellogg's years. It seems to me that in most K years, relative to the prices received for 9's, the 10's are generally an excellent value.

Machodoc

Gemmy:

I agree with you as to the "look" of the 1970 set - clean, uncluttered with any of those frilly borders that characterize the other years. The 1970 set sort of reminds me of the 1969 Topps set, with the clean look and the player name in a single circle.

Of course, I have to be counted as a principal 1971 K fan, with the #2 set (after Galveston, of course). I guess I should have added to my list of rarities ANY 1971 PSA 10 K card - I have NEVER seen one on eBay in my two years of active buying (and I buy a lot!). Where are the PSA 10 1971's? Probably in the same purgatory where most of the missing 1975's live! At least one can buy an occasional 1970 PSA 10 K, and the funny thing there is that many of them go for what some PSA 9 1971's go for (just check out this week's auctions for 1971 Northrup, Alou, and Wayne Simpson cards - the Simpson went for $374 in PSA 9 while the other two were in the mid $200's).

As for the perceptive comment by EOMINT, if your idea of a "novelty" is a popular series that ran for 14 straight years, then yeah, maybe they are novelties (NOT)!

KING KELLOGG

Machodoc & THEGEMMINTMAN...

Check out Submission 4031870....


What do you think?




Larry

KING KELLOGG

EOMINT...

Novelty???? I guess so...if you consider those Tango eggs, all tobacco cards, caramel cards, Weiner cards, Cracker Jack cards, Nut and chocolate cards, Bazooka cards, B18 Blankets, BF2 Felts, Blum's Photos, Cardinals cards, all potato chip cards, all stand ups, ...etc....etc....etc....novelty cards too.

Yeah...Eric...Thanks for that important message.


(Oh..BTW......Those 1972 topps baseball cards that you and I collect, with the "psychodelic" theme.....I guess those would be considered a "novelty" too...........Huh....).....


All for the fun of collecting....




Larry

thejam

i need two more scoops of 71K please

Stump

Steve is right

1975 seems for some reason to be in short supply, I think maybe a call to a long time kellogg's exec might shed some light,

Toughest card 81 Winfield

Toughest set 1975,1971 1979

Dave

Stump

Larry

Nice submission on the 71's and the 75's big slam on the Killebrew 10. Mick will be drooling on that one.

Dave

thegemmintman

KING KELLOGG - awesome submission with those 71's particularly the ONE OF ONE Killebrew PSA 10. That's only the eleventh 10 issued for that set. I guess that's why you're the KING.

Machodoc

You da man, King!

Mick ain't the only one drooling!

Galveston

Excuse me while I wipe off my bib.

That's an amazing submission. The Palmer variation PSA 9 is a nice card too, not to mention the Rose and Clemente. Ironically, I just bought a Killebrew SGC 98 (PSA 10). It's the only SGC 98 ever graded among 71 Kellogg's. Should I cross it over?

As for the rest of this conversation:

The 1975 Kellogg's set seems very fragile. If no one ever looked at a card with a magnifyer, we probably wouldn't even notice how difficult that set is to obtain in PSA 8 or 9. I've been burned on several sets that I've bought on e-bay. Frankly, I'll never buy another 1975 card or set that I can't examine in person, or buy already graded. I don't think 1975 Kellogg's cards in general are as tough to find as 1971 but I do think they are just as difficult to find in PSA condition.

Two factors that make 1971 Kellogg's infinately more interesting than the 1975 cards to me are: 1) the player selection---Mays, Clemente, Banks, etc give it the vintage feel of my childhood. 2) the variations make it a true 101 card set. These two factors are personal with me and certainly not universal to everyone that collects Kellogg's cards. I can understand why the 75 set has its own mystique. But, whenever I buy a 71 set, it seems like every card has a 'story.' Because most were put together one card at a time, they tend to look different from card to card. All of the other Kellogg's set I've bought were factory sets where every card had the same look and feel.

I think you'll see a lot more 75 and 79 cards over time. Most people don't know or don't yet believe that there's a monetary incentive to get them graded. That's not as true with 71.s. I think the pace of grading 71's has peaked, while the others will continue to grow.

Davalillo

Thejam,

Speaking for just 1970, I think the market may have benefitted when I challenged Gemmint and Zardoz and said I would reach the top two. Also Stump has built an impressive set.

Honestly for me and some may say it was different for them, putting together a psa 9 set at under smr was relatively simple. Three major collectors or dealers in the first week gave me everything I needed. I imagine it would be even easier today.

PSA 10s are another matter though. I believe I paid $600-$700 for a few pop 1 commons. If I got involved in bidding against gemmint(or Dave Jacobs) for pop one commons today I suspect it would be at least as competitive. Many of the cards still do not exist in psa 10.

Davalillo

Galveston

Vic....we could use you in the 71 Kellogg's chase. Your reputation would grant us the nation wide credit we deserve!

rbeaton

<< <i>Check out Submission 4031870....
What do you think? >>

I think I know of a great home for that Palmer card

Great submission King Kellogg!!

Robert

thejam

are kellogg's psa 10s currently worth at least $100.? smr seems off on some ebay realized sales

thegemmintman

Yes, they're extremely off SMR prices.

Machodoc

Of the PSA 10's consistently offered on eBay, only 1973 commons consistently sell less than $100 each. This also applies to later year runs, but one tends to see few of those for sale.

Davalillo

Galveston,

If your requests reflects the sentiment of the 1971 Kelloggs collectors maybe I could be talked into it. First though, I would have to see if the attack dog collects it so I could prepare for the inevitable personal attack.

Vic D

thejam

who is the attack dog? also, I'm trying to negotiate a price for a psa 9 1971 variation which has pop of 1 ; what would be fair? what would be top dollar?

Galveston

You must be referring to the Fregosi--Angels Crest. There hasn't been enough sales of this type of "pop-1, variations" to give a clear read. My guess is that it would fall in the wide range of $100 to $400.

Galveston

Jump on in Vic. The water is warm....