Where has honesty and integrity gone?
radiationguy
Posts: 19
I have read the recent posts about dissatisfaction with PSA in general and with the grading of trimmed cards and thought I would throw in my two cents worth.
1. If you are unhappy about the way you are being treated by PSA (Davillio) and others then by all means try another company. Cross all your cards over and be done with it. If doing so causes you a financial hit then so be it. You should not put all your eggs in one basket. If you want investments call your broker. This hobby is supposed to be fun and it seem to me that some people need to step back and ask themselves why they are doing this.
2. No company or person is perfect. The last perfect person was hung on a cross. Some people complain when 1 trimmed card in 10000 is in a case. Why don't we go after the scumbags that trim the cards or the people that know a card is trimmed and keep on submitting a card 3 or 4 times until it slips through? If the card comes back PSA as being trimmed have the balls to put it on Ebay as raw and trimmed. Honesty and integrity are becoming things of the past. People will then send it to another grading company to get it slabbed to pass off on some unsuspecting collector. I hope these guys sleep well at night knowing that they just poked somebody in the rear. Thanks for reading my sermon.
Billy
1. If you are unhappy about the way you are being treated by PSA (Davillio) and others then by all means try another company. Cross all your cards over and be done with it. If doing so causes you a financial hit then so be it. You should not put all your eggs in one basket. If you want investments call your broker. This hobby is supposed to be fun and it seem to me that some people need to step back and ask themselves why they are doing this.
2. No company or person is perfect. The last perfect person was hung on a cross. Some people complain when 1 trimmed card in 10000 is in a case. Why don't we go after the scumbags that trim the cards or the people that know a card is trimmed and keep on submitting a card 3 or 4 times until it slips through? If the card comes back PSA as being trimmed have the balls to put it on Ebay as raw and trimmed. Honesty and integrity are becoming things of the past. People will then send it to another grading company to get it slabbed to pass off on some unsuspecting collector. I hope these guys sleep well at night knowing that they just poked somebody in the rear. Thanks for reading my sermon.
Billy
0
Comments
To answer number 1. The fact is this is more than a hobby. Maybe not to you, but to many others this is a fun way to combine investing the hobby we love. There's nothing wrong with it. In some cases the investments are rather huge and some of us believe that if a grader enters this business they need to take on the responsibility of being consistent.
To answer number 2. True, mistakes are make. However, they should be corrected if proven. I totally agree with you about chasing down scum bags but that can be very difficult. eBay is no help. Typically authorities are no help as well. It's a real dilema. Companies like PRO are another story. There's gotta be something that can done with them besides not buying their cards.
When you can go down the invoice and see trimmed, 10, trimmed, 9, trimmed and so on
with whale cards you have to come to grips that this is suspect especially when your ranging
from 40's cards to 65 fb to 69 alcindor they didn't come from a raw dealer they were hacked
BOTTOMLINE and its APPAULING that they would let this slide.
Jesus this and Jesus that,
Satan
PSAtan-
I thought you would enjoy this...
Today there are 6666 sets registered.
John
PSatan, now there are 6667..........666 followed by the number of perfection: 7
Read the ending again, bad boy, you lose.
I never said anything about your offensive name but if your going to trash our Lord then I'm going to say something. I find that VERY offensive!!! Leave it off these boards.
Wayne
1974 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
Knowledge speaks, wisdom listens
I agree with you. PSAtan's comments are patently offensive and show a general disrespect for Christianity.
<< <i>Was the perfect guy on the cross Jesus? Heck, you didn't even know him. He was a terrible carpenter and one of the worst chess players I've ever seen. Also, he was constantly battling split ends. They didn't have conditioner back then. Also, he finished every sentence with "you know?". Quite frankly, Beavis was a lot like the guy minus the miracles.
Jesus this and Jesus that,
Satan >>
Actually, I find that very clever and fairly humorous, but I can respect that others find it offensive.
<< <i>Jesus Christ! Must you all be so Goddamned uptight? >>
Now THAT IS offensive.
In this PC world, perhaps it is best to not make jokes about peoples religion, race , or ethnic background. Personally, I used to love Don Rickles, Archie Bunker, and Polish/Italian/Irish/Jewish/Christian/fat people jokes. Now we are left with Blonde jokes, and it probably won't be long until they are gone.
I respect your religious beliefs and I don't mean to offend you. However, I'm sure Jesus took no offense regarding the remarks I made that were designed to be witty and light. I believe Jesus enjoyed laughing and wasn't self-serious. I heard he had a wonderful stand-up routine (Rim shot).
This is a very delicate time with the rise of PC. My attitude is as long as someone isn't picking specifically on one group and is an equal opportunity wise-guy, it's okay. I'd go after the Jewish guys right now, but they're all home counting their money.
So don't turn into Ned Flanders and curse me like Gidra, the seven-headed serpent. You guys know me a bit by now. I'm not looking to hurt anyone's feelings. I make some jokes. They hit and miss. I'm not putting Jesus down. However, if any of you say a bad word about the dalai lama, I'll be forced to avenge his holiness.
Sleep tight,
Satan
<< <i> Jesus Christ! Must you all be so Goddamned uptight?
Now THAT IS offensive. >>
Get real dude. Just playing around. Loosen up the tie, roll up the shirt sleeves, adjust the wooden object that is firmly embedded in your tush and switch to decaf.
I am certainly not going to curse you and I think this Political Correctness stuff is taken way too far. I find you have a very sharp wit (your post awhile back about PSA's new grades and qualifiers was the funniest post I've ever seen on these boards). However, there are probably several people on this board (myself included) that serve the Lord Jesus as God, and it does begin to get offensive after repeated "bashings" on this board. I think what Wayne was getting at was that is a probably a good idea that we stick mostly to sportscards here at least publicly. Even though I don't know you personally, I still consider you a friend (anyone that likes cards is a friend of mine) and any discussion you want to have with me concerning this issue can be done privately.
David
PS I gotta hurry and get to church
1974 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
Knowledge speaks, wisdom listens
Just curious how you chose your moniker?
My background is in the Gray area. Same for you?
Greg
Basketball has hardwood floors. Football has terms like "crossing up a defense". Golf shots that are well hit are "nailed". Every game seems to have something so it might be the whole sporting world involved in a larger conspiracy. Plus, pro sports are often called the new religion of the day. Football games all take place on Sunday--Church day. I'm sure Bill Buckner has been called "Judas". There's a lot going on today. Last, Jesus was Jewish and so is Sean Green.
Sorry again,
Satan
The fact that Christ's message proclaimed and preserved the Living Word of God in the New Testament is not a trivial one. First, you compare Jesus to a cartoon character who is perverse, vulgar and profane. Then, you ask, "Was the perfect guy on the cross Jesus?" -- implying that somehow, he was not. That's blasphemy. I think it's clear that you have no respect for Judeo-Christianity.
My belief is that it is you who represent "Beavis and Butthead." God's Son was the Word Incarnate -- that is, the Word become flesh. He brought to everyone a means for salvation. Without him, there would be no eternal life. We would be condemned for our sins and live in eternal damnation with Satan (the real one, not you).
You, on the other hand, seem to have a callous disrespect for Christ with your mocking questions and characterizations. Your signature line adds further to the thought that you value the pleasures of life while abandoning life's greatest reward -- spirituality through Christ. The vulgar and promiscuous lifestyle glorified by two ambient cartoon characters seems to having a growing appeal to many. You, like many other secular adherents, should choose your words with greater caution. Our words and our deeds are the substance for which judgment will be cast by God. It may all seem trivial and entertaining now to make fun of Christ, but someday, I hope, you'll see your words in a greater context.
Amen. That was extremely well said. The last thing I need is more enemies around here and I suspect most registry participants will remain quiet about this one so as not to alienate either side. But, I certainly agree with the posts of Wayne, Abbadad annd Cakeman.
Davalillo
Vintage Baseball Cards
Sales and Ebay Consignment Service
email
Lloyd_Taylor_Vintage_Cards -- on Ebay
Ohio Taz: I have a M.S. in Medical Physics. I make sure the machines that deliver radiation treatments are calibrated properly. You see alot of sick people so it kind of puts things in perspective.
Let's get back to cards.
Billy
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
However, Jesus was half-human. He went around healing the sick. Laughter is a form of healing. I've noticed that many great men have used humor to find a common ground when religions clash. I don't worship Beavis or Butthead for that matter. I choose to believe in the power of the individual. I see responsibility relying on man. I don't buy blind faith in Jesus is the end all be all. Everything is forgiven if you believe whole-heartedly in Jesus. Does this mean serial killers can receive absolution if they come out with a total love in Jesus? It seems a bit simple. I believe man is responsible for his/her own actions. That works for me. I don't advocate it for anyone. I don't want anyone else to convert to my way of thinking. I'm a man that's educated and I'm entitled to my opinion.
A lot of the posts went beyond the personal belief of the individual. They were enticements aimed at getting people to fly straight or suffer the eternal damnation of hell. Hence, they were threatening. Anytime a group is ignorant enough to believe their way is the only way, trouble ensues. Nobody was upset when I said Jews were busy counting their money. If I put a cartoon up of a hispanic woman pregnant with an insert of her baby being pregnant, I'd receive no flack.
So, relax. I'm no threat to your way of life or thinking. I don't want to be. I'm not looking to add people to my coven. I'm a simple man that can find humor in any situation. That's why I write comedy for a living. If I'm not your taste, I understand. However, religious sermons on a baseball card site annoy me. My jokes were answered with theological diatribes and the threat of hell. I go to Palm Springs during the summer so I'm not too scared.
I guess what I want to get at is 'lighten up, people'. I could take it forty steps farther and really do insulting humor. I did not do that. I expressed my regret for offending anyone. It's the year 2003. We're not throwing rocks at the moon anymore. Modern thought and science have advanced. Even if you don't agree with a few jokes, praising Jesus on this site isn't going to score points with him. I'm sure he has better things to do with war and famine all over the world. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - have any of you bible-thumpers ever laughed at a racist or ethnic joke. I bet you have. Turn the mirror on yourself and improve what's inside. I'll take care of my end. I'm honest and I look to help people whenever I can. I think that's what Christianity is all about. I'm not the enemy, girls. I'm one of you, but you're all too superstitious to recognize it.
Your friend,
Satan
<< <i>I choose to believe in the power of the individual >>
Psatan, I agree that this should probably be left alone now and this will be my last post on this also. I just happen to believe in Christ as opposed to the power of the individual. If you are right about the power of the individual and we are both long gone many years from now, then I've feel like I've had a great life and back to dust I go. If I'm right, then I have a lot to look forward to after leaving here.
I would be glad to speak to you about any aspect of religion you like. Just pm me and we'll take it off of these boards. I'm not being critical of your beliefs - I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. Like I said, I won't bug you anymore unless you choose to ridicule Christ in the future. Good luck with your collecting and it's back to card talk for me.
Wayne
I am confused by what you mean by "Jesus" talk. Each person, whether he/she chooses it or not, is formed in God's image and endowed with the Holy Spirit. All of us, whether we recognize it or not, thirst to know God more fully. Jesus is the conduit that fulfills this desire -- through no other means can we hope to share the everlasting eschatological existence where we can experience God face to face.
Also, it would not be theologically accurate to say that Jesus was "half human." Rather, he was perfectly human -- the divine fulfillment where body and spirit are in perfect coexistence. And yet he was both perfectly human AND the Son of God. His existence was that of a Divine Sonship -- his expressions may have been "human" but his knowledge flowed freely from the Holy Spirit. As an eternal part of the Trinity, Jesus always was. His existence was not merely a function of his human incarnation; rather, it was timeless. By taking the body of a human being, the Son of God was able to fulfill two important functions: eternal salvation for all and the divine institutional of his Church on Earth.
Next, I find your historical accounts perplexing. While it was true that some of our ancestors came to the New World so that they could freely express themselves, it was not to escape religion, only religious persecution. Our Founding Fathers drew much inspiration from religion and God in instituting the laws that currently govern our nation. In other words, to contrive some type of secular rationale for your statements, based on the belief that your relatives wanted to live in a secular word, belies historical fact.
I agree with you. Laughter is indeed a form of healing...but how does that excuse your comparison of Jesus to a vulgar and sexually perverted cartoon character unless you find that comparison to be funny or entertaining? THINK about what you are saying here. You are fortunate that God gave you free will so that you CAN make such a comparison. That was one of his gracious gifts to us -- one that you should be thankful for. But ultimately, He (not me) WILL judge you for your words and actions.
Like you, I DO believe in the power of the individual; however, I also believe in something greater. As men, we all persist in sin and no one is infallible. The spirit within each person is eternal and pure, and yet our bodies, which are freely governed by human thought and reason, are not. For this reason, I look toward something greater -- God's promise of eternal life and the final Resurrection. I find it puzzling that the social liberalization of society has left us all with counterfeit notions of human fulfillment. Sex, money and power have replaced chastity, charity and humility as few, including yourself, seem to be able to look beyond physical human existence. Human life is an infinitesimally small segment of our spiritual lives. Old age eventually brings physical death -- are we all so short sighted that we would rather sacrifice the eschatology of our eternal beings for a reliance on man and his wisdom rather than surrendering ourselves to God?
"Nobody was upset when I said Jews were busy counting their money."
How can you be so certain? I'm not completely sure what type of anti-Semitic meaning you wished to convey, but quite frankly, I think your search for human wisdom is lacking and the expression of that so-called "wisdom" is insulting to some.
"If I put a cartoon up of a hispanic woman pregnant with an insert of her baby being pregnant, I'd receive no flack."
Statements like this make me feel sad.
"I'm honest and I look to help people whenever I can. I think that's what Christianity is all about."
No. It's not. Christianity is so much deeper than that. It is through our belief in Christ that goodwill and charity flow. There is no salvation if one does not belief that Christ died so that our sins may be forgiven. The fact that he rose from the dead on the third day and ascended into heaven is a metaphor for our own lives. If we believe in Christ and are faithful to his words and teachings, we too can ascend into heaven and escape the spiritual death of our sins.
You're right, PSAtan. You're not the enemy. But that doesn't excuse the fact that your statements continue to insult Christ. And calling it "superstition" doesn't make it (or you) any less offensive. Still, I wish you the best and I hope that one day, you will find your path in life. Peace.
edited for grammar
Sports Moderator1, please? Separation of Church and Forum. Many thanks.
I don't think that pedophilia is a "funny" topic. I am very forgiving, but posts like yours might be offensive to some.
<< <i>I don't think that pedophilia is a "funny" topic. >>
Nor do I. But then again I am not sure that someone as uptight as you would recognize a "funny" topic.
vargas,
You are so sexy when you get mad but please leave behinds out of this. I am sure that cakeboy does not approve of that topic either.
You boys have a nice day!
MBT
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
When I'm done counting my money, I'm going to count it again. I was too busy to let you know how offended and insulted I am by your statement.
Welcome to the board.
E
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
<< <i>PSAtan,
I am confused by what you mean by "Jesus" talk. Each person, whether he/she chooses it or not, is formed in God's image and endowed with the Holy Spirit. All of us, whether we recognize it or not, thirst to know God more fully. Jesus is the conduit that fulfills this desire -- through no other means can we hope to share the everlasting eschatological existence where we can experience God face to face.
see - therein lies the problem, you take the above as fact, when its discussions and beliefs that are different that may prove/disprove the above, just because you CHOOSE to believe it doesn't make it fact or so, just your belief.
1954
Well, it's a belief that has withstood the test of time. It is a belief that has been preserved in writing and verified by over 16,000 independent sources. From an historically secular viewpoint, that's more support than any other event from the same time period -- events that we today hold to be historical fact. No other major religion, be it Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism or Islam hold that same distinction. That is not to say they are wrong; it's simply that they don't hold the same weight with regard to written scholarship. Sure, it's only my "personal opinion" but it also happens to have extensive evidentiary support.
cakeman - 16,000 independent verified writings? What in gfb's post are there 16,000 independent (i.e. not related to each other or based on each other) writings about?
- Each person, whether he/she chooses it or not, is formed in God's image and endowed with the Holy Spirit?
- this implies that 16,000 people have seen God and written about it
- All of us, whether we recognize it or not, thirst to know God more fully.
- 16,000 people is a very small percentage of the world's population then or now, not
close to the 100% of "all of us".
- Jesus is the conduit that fulfills this desire -- through no other means can we hope to share the everlasting eschatological existence where we can experience God face to face
- I am sure you can find plenty of other groups of 16,000 or more who say they know different
ways to see God face to face.
Personally I have a lot of respect for the Christian religion, but I think when it is branded as the 'only way' to get to know God, I cannot agree. I believe that is not what the Jesus I believe in was about.
-------------------
Need a 1954 Wilson Franks Jablonski
Collectable
Smelly
Please. Let's kill this thread already. We're here for baseball cards. Nobody is going to gain anything by continuing this. We're brothers in baseball cards. My stupid post wasn't intended to separate the group into sides. Maybe the moderator can take this down?
Smelly
Well, now you are.
I am offended by your accusation.
Smelly
I think you misunderstand me. In addition to the eyewitness and first or second generation sources already included the Bible, there are more than 16,000 others that support its veracity. That's what the word "independent" means. Obviously, far more than 16,000 listened to or interacted with Jesus.
"Personally I have a lot of respect for the Christian religion, but I think when it is branded as the 'only way' to get to know God, I cannot agree. I believe that is not what the Jesus I believe in was about."
You are correct. There are many diverse ways of "knowing God" in a human sense but there is only one way of gaining eternal life and truly knowing God in a spiritual sense. Jesus himself substantiates this:
"For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day." (John 6:40)
"'It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.' Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, 'For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.'" (John 6: 63-65)
O.K. O.K. I will convert to anything you want. You name it. I will sign up immediately. Please no more cards!
Smelly
I must have wandered into the wrong forum.
Cakeman,
what sort of sportscards do you collect?
do you have any registered sets?
If so......could you talk a bit about your favorites?
Right you are. The American Tract Society, an organization that publishes and distributes Christian literature, once produced a series of baseball cards.
I primarily collect non-sport issues from the 1930s to 60s time period but occasionally I'll pick up a graded baseball or football card on eBay. I also have a coin collection, but that's a different story and another forum.
Funny how this rings true with quite a few of your posts.
Smelly
Thanks
SM
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Smelly