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To snipe a dealer, ethical?
NoGvmnt
Posts: 1,126 ✭
Long story short; I went to a coin shop in my area today to pick-up a coin I had purchased, while there a guy came in with a freezer bag full of silver quarters, the dealer bought them for 3x face.
The guy was very happy with the exchange as he only came to the coin shop expecting to recieve face because the "coin star" machine wouldn't take his quarters.
After the guy came outside I asked him if he had any more silver coins and offered him 3.5x face, he said he had a lot more at home and I gave him my phone number.
Was this "ethical"?
Jim
The guy was very happy with the exchange as he only came to the coin shop expecting to recieve face because the "coin star" machine wouldn't take his quarters.
After the guy came outside I asked him if he had any more silver coins and offered him 3.5x face, he said he had a lot more at home and I gave him my phone number.
Was this "ethical"?
Jim
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What are these coins worth to an informed seller? Or are you just concerned with the dealer?
I know I have purchased coins at auction, where I am sure no one else in the room realized what was being sold!
I'm surprised the person with the quarters didn't seem to know they were silver....and, I hadn't heard of coinstar machines not taking them....were they mangled at all?
Are you going for silver value mainly?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
So, you feel the dealer ripped the guy, you respected his store and didn't say anything.....so, my question to you is: Will you still frequent this dealer that you know ripped someone or will you take your business elsewhere?
How do you feel about the dealer in general?
Did you comment to the dealer when the guy left, like... "That was a killer rip of a deal you just made....how much are you going to sell that for? $400+?" or did you say nothing to the dealer?
I can understand not saying anything to the person selling if that is your inclination based on all the other "dealer ethics" dicussions lately, but, I don't know if I could keep giving the person my business if I saw him doing that so blatantly.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
My Ebay Items
He might view it as lost future business and be upset that it was on his property.
I know a few dealers that would ask you to leave on your next visit.
I'm sure some dealers view this different. Being junk silver might also matter.
If the store owner was interested, he most likely would have paid more attention to the seller and would extend an invitation to bring additional merchandise.
I have to ask myself who pays the dealers rent?
Damn I love this place
<< <i>291fifth,
So, you feel the dealer ripped the guy, you respected his store and didn't say anything.....so, my question to you is: Will you still frequent this dealer that you know ripped someone or will you take your business elsewhere?
How do you feel about the dealer in general?
Did you comment to the dealer when the guy left, like... "That was a killer rip of a deal you just made....how much are you going to sell that for? $400+?" or did you say nothing to the dealer?
I can understand not saying anything to the person selling if that is your inclination based on all the other "dealer ethics" dicussions lately, but, I don't know if I could keep giving the person my business if I saw him doing that so blatantly. >>
I've done business with this dealer for many years. I can deal with him without much difficulty. I have long suspected that the main reason the shop stays open is to be able to buy estates cheaply. It is located in a relatively well to do area.
I don't really have much sympathy for the seller in this case because he clearly was not interested in doing his homework. He could have asked to buy a Red Book (which were available) but he didn't.
I will still deal with the dealer. He didn't misrepresent the value of the coin or bad-mouth it. He just made a quick $250 offer and bought the coin.
My local dealer i consider a friend, and he has bailed me out on cash shortfalls and loans on many occasions. Always with collateral, but sure is nice not needing to wait for a bank delay when a deal was HOT!
If it were me..........i'd sell the dealer whatever you can't use personally and split whatever profit is left in the coins. Dealers are not perfect, and it might be a bit of a friendly lesson for him to realize .........
.........to ask a simple question........Do you have any more?
<< <i>Long story short; I went to a coin shop in my area today to pick-up a coin I had purchased, while there a guy came in with a freezer bag full of silver quarters, the dealer bought them for 3x face.
The guy was very happy with the exchange as he only came to the coin shop expecting to recieve face because the "coin star" machine wouldn't take his quarters.
After the guy came outside I asked him if he had any more silver coins and offered him 3.5x face, he said he had a lot more at home and I gave him my phone number.
Was this "ethical"?
Jim >>
Once again resides with Legend, the original purchaser "raw" at live Eliasberg auction. Laura and i "love" the same lady!
Ask yourself this: Would it be ethical to stand out in the parking lot, soliciting to buy coins from people who passed on the dealers best offer? I mean, the dealer made his best offer, right, so why not take a shot.
Oh sure, the dealer pays for advertising, pays the rent, maintains an expensive inventory, etc…..but what the heck.
Yup, unethical....
Dave
<< <i>Oh sure, the dealer pays for advertising, pays the rent, maintains an expensive inventory, etc…..but what the heck. >>
Ebay pays for the servers, the software, maintaining the website, the salary of the IT workers and advertising. Yet plenty of people here see nothing wrong with trying to cut a deal with a seller, on a coin they found through an Ebay auction, by buying it OFF of the auction.
<< <i>Yup, unethical.... >>
Why would anyone need to ask?
A coin dealer that made a fair offer that was actually 3Xs what the seller was willing to take (note that this was a small margin of profit for the dealer)... and then you cut him out of likely future deals of a similar nature - fair to both buyer and seller. Now this seller likely believes that this dealer dealt him wrong and will look elsewhere in the future for a dealer willing to pay retail and sell at wholesale - by the way, these do not stay in business very long.
If I were the dealer and found out about your chicanery, I would either strongly admonish you not to do it again or end our relationship all together depending on my perception of your knowledge of the wrong you had done.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
09/07/2006
Was being in a store, seeing a transaction, and worming your way in (even though you were outside the building when you did it), ethical?
Only you have to live with you.
But look, you don't have to be snakey to buy coins.
You can put an ad in your local paper, and have it run continously that you are buying. You'd better have deep pockets, because you're going to get more stuff shoved at you than you can imagine.
Do that and you don't need wonder if what you're doing is ethical or not.
Ray
Lathmach, I didn't worm my way into anything, if I were to worm my way into anything I would have made the guy an offer in the store for the quarters he had in hand.
I have a friend who owns a store and pays only 2X face. If your friend is paying only 2x face for silver, I'd have to say your friend is a crook, and you dare to call ME snakey and a worm? ESAD!
Jim
If I saw a dealer offering to buy a 20 gold for about 100 less then melt value, I would not interfear in his shop, but if it was on the bourse of a coin show I would tell the seller the bullion value of his coin. And if I was in the dealers shop I'd keep my mouth shut untill the seller left and then tell the dealer that I was thinking about doing buisness with him, but not after what he did. And I'd also tell him that I'd tell every collector friend I have in the area what he did, then they can make up there own minds if they'd do buisness with someone like that.
As far as the quarters purchased in the shop, the transaction was fine and the dealer didn't ask if he had anymore with you out bidding him in the shop, instead, you waited till the transaction was done and the seller WAS NOT IN THE DEALERS SHOP ANYMORE, and only on the public sidewalk did you ask the seller if he had any more, nothing unethical about that.
Les
there were also a dozen or so decent morgan's in the last page of the book.... The guy wanted a Free Appraisal, (of course),
because he had just purchased the album from an elderly neighbor lady.... The face value of the book was in the $60.00 range,
He bought it for $75.00 making the old lady a nice proffit..... He was very happy when I offerd him $300. for the 1921 P-D-S Walkers....
Now I'll bet this guy is a HERO to most of you and I am the crook.... Right ????
anyway, When all the neighborhood shop's are closed, because of all you "Hero do- gooder's", we can all still meet here to chat.....
It amaze's me how people think..... Most have no clue about what it takes to operate a small business....
So what if someone is paying 2X, so what if he offers $250 for a saint... who's business is it......Not your's.....
If a dealer sits in his store 50 hours a week and makes cash offers, thats his business, not your's.....
Open your own store if you have all the answers....and someone will surelly be waiting for your customers in your parking lot....
Holy Schomoly... let the guy make a living....
LM-ANA3242-CSNS308-MSNS226-ICTA
Customer happy, dealer happy, you're happy, relationship maintained, no gray ethics questions.
No worries about paying the rent and utilities 24/7 or labor for keeping the shop open 80 hours a week, or insurance, or expenses, or taxes...
And if you only sit outside during high-traffic weekend times, you can scoop a big chunk of the dealer's buying business with only a minimal time investment. And you even get him to do the first appraisal for you.
Sounds fair. Deal goes to the highest bidder, right?
<< <i>Seems to me better to offer the dealer 3.5x face, which he probably would gladly accept to flip it instantly. Maybe even cut a deal in advance if the customer brought more in (which he likely would have).
Customer happy, dealer happy, you're happy, relationship maintained, no gray ethics questions. >>
17 hours and twelve minutes, and thirty seven posts later - Ladies and Gentlemen, WE HAVE A WINNER.
Now, that wasn't so hard, was it?
If the dealer was in the same situation, he would have done the same thing....
Steve
Keep in mind that the only reason why you met the silver quarter guy is because the dealer was paying rent. Try to think about it that way...
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
While we were not required to report COIN transactions to the police as coins are considered "unidentifiable" in California, I had the ID of EVERY seller of coins OR jewelry. We aided a few collectors in getting their coins back.
As coinlieutenant stated, you would not have had the opportunity had the dealer not paid HIS dues with ads and rent.
Do you know what slimeballs tell the cops when they buy something that is hot?
They say they bought it "at" the coin shop. Even though they were outside in the parking lot.
I personally ejected buyers from my premises when I had the shop. Those who chose to challenge my right to do so were soon (usually within 5 minutes) speaking to the police who I immediately called via 911. They soon found out that my lease included the parking lot..........AND.........they got a report on their name as I always required the police to make a report.
The ease of selling hot material increases with lax policies.
If you want to buy coins at dealer prices, pay to run an ad in the paper. Anyone doing ANY buying in front of the shop........NEVER.......came back. I would tell them to leave.
If it's worth never being able to buy from the dealer again, then go ahead.
But remember one thing. The dealer will be there to buy when no one else will.
That's a valuable service.
When I purchased this coin from the dealer, we agreed that I should pick it up on Saturday, his hours on Saturday(which is posted on the door) are from 10am to 4pm, well, I got there at 2pm only to find the store closed. So, I went back on Monday to pick-up the coin(this particular shop is a 35 minute drive each way). When I got there Monday I asked him what happened on Saturday, the response: Oh, I went to the Dells (Wisconsin Dells). So please, quit with the "Oh, the poor guy will now go out of business" crap.
For the record, I already determined before approaching the guy, that my actions were ethical, I simply posted the question here because I thought that it would be an interesting issue. And, apparently, it was/is.
Jim
PS, topstuf, this was not in front of the coin shop. The coin shop is in a strip mall. And, by the way, concerning your "stolen property" concern, I didn't see the coin dealer take the guys name or any information of any kind.
He finally got the right perspective.
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
You mean to shoot a coin dealer? Yes, this is ethical.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
If you're a dealer and you buy a St. Gauden's Double Eagle for $500 from Collector A and then you resell that same Double Eagle on the bourse 15 minutes later for $600, you're not going to complain about it, are you?
Seems to me like we have a bunch of whiny babies that can't handle a legitimate business practice. If you can't handle the competition, get the heck out of the game.
Sorry to sound harsh but this is whine whine whine..it's business! There's no law that says you can't, I say it's perfectly ethical and well within anyone's right to offer whatever they please so long as it is off business grounds.
Next time your in that store, ask a couple of the owner's if they mind, If you sit in their parking lot and ask their customers to sell you coin's.
I'm curious what they might tell you....
and NOgovt.. just as a side note, your signature "Uhhh, I better not" really speak's volume's....
LM-ANA3242-CSNS308-MSNS226-ICTA
<< <i>Seems to me like we have a bunch of whiny babies that can't handle a legitimate business practice. If you can't handle the competition, get the heck out of the game.
>>
Perhaps this thread needs a new title - to wit - "To poach a dealer, ethical?"
The origin of this thread was a customer who follows another customer out of a shop and offers said other customer a very marginal premium over the reasonable price the shopowner was offering for goods.
If this happens once and only once I would consider it to be in bad taste but nothing earthshatteringly offensive. (the originator of the thread has mentioned that the owner p*ssed him off, so perhaps this is even a little retaliatory?)
If this is something that is going to turn into a "business practice," however, I would respectfully reject your categorization of it as legitimate.
As supercoin suggested, everyone can be happy in this situation with a simple conversation with the shopowner.
gee whiz, an awful lot of cheap, bitter people posting around here....