So Is The The Year PCGS Grades An MS70RD Cent?

wondercoin

The very best 2003(P) PCGS-MS69RD Lincoln cents I have seen are virtually "perfect". Is this the year PCGS grades their first PCGS-MS70RD Lincoln Cent?

Wondercoin

itsnotjustme

I went 3 for 3 on MS69RD 2003-P Lincolns. One I can spot the tiniest flaw on. The others are flawless to me and my loop. I think we will get one!

segoja

Where are you guys finding the nice 03 Lincolns??

Rolls or mint sets?

How about earlier lincons 1970-2002 Rolls or mint sets?

Datentype

It will never happen!

redcents

I agree with Mark. I just don't see it. Too much to consider. But should I post a buy price anyway?

mdwoods

Even though some of the 2003 cents are near perfect, overall I think PCGS has tightened back up on moderns a bit. PCGS was tough on my last submission of moderns I just got back. I don't think they will grade a MS70 Lincoln.

Datentype

The Liability is too high. Let's say they do and I sell it to red cents for $20,000 and then it turns sour like many of the breathed on pcgs coins, then they have to buy it back. At least, that's my understanding of how there guarantee works. Won't ever happen.

cointime

Mitch,

I voted no. I think the technical grade is probably super close, but the eye appeal (I'm not talking proof like) is not there yet, in PCGS' mind. I think what is more realistic is seeing a few Philly mint nickels in MS68FS 1st

Ken

wondercoin

Remember PCGS has already graded a ton of MS70 2003 gold as well as hundreds and hundreds of MS70 silver Commems. How far behind can a Lincoln be?

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scher

wow mitch that would be so great.. i hope to someday see a 2003 penny in ms70 red..ican only wish and dream//man o man that would really be something...
bruce scher

redcents

I don't know about 20k, but 20 benji's if there are only a handful (less than 10) might be realistic.

dldallen

I'm with the majority (negative) here.

PCGS has already graded a ton of MS70 2003 gold as well as hundreds and hundreds of MS70 silver Commems

Yes, but gold and silver are not nearly as volatile as copper/zinc. I'm with you Mitch in that I think there are some 2003 Lincolns that warrant it - but how they were handled before PCGS got them slabbed remains a liability. Dave

braddick

<< <i>The very best 2003(P) PCGS-MS69RD Lincoln cents I have seen are virtually "perfect". Is this the year PCGS grades their first PCGS-MS70RD Lincoln Cent?

Wondercoin >>

You would think with the occasional MS70 Silver Eagle PCGS allows, there would have been one MS70 Lincoln. I know the minting is different for each but the Eagle is a much heavier coin to remain markfree.

I think there ARE MS70 Modern Lincolns out there but I also believe they'll end up in MS69 holders, for the reasons stated above my post.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Mitch,

Why don't you take thirty 2003 P"s that you got in ms 69 red holders and resubmit them at $100 show service at Long Beach.

You could crack out one of the "best" ms 69's and put it in a 2x2 paper coin envelope.Put it in the oven for 2 hours at 450 degrees.The toning along with the perfect strike could be an ms 70 !!


stewart

wondercoin

Stew - I don't submit 2003 cents. I doubt I'll even buy a single 2003 mint set. But, if I do, I'll consider your oven idea

Wondercoin

MoneyLA

I agree with Dave dldallen who wrote:

"gold and silver are not nearly as volatile as copper/zinc. I'm with you Mitch in that I think there are some 2003 Lincolns that warrant it - but how they were handled before PCGS got them slabbed remains a liability."

there is just too much volatility with copper and too much "liability" for pcgs as another poster noted.

Frankly, you guys who buy red copper have a lot of guts. You all deserve a medal (silver or gold) for "numismatic valor."

back in 1980, when my son was born, I decided to put together a gem set of lincolns. I was living in Miami at the time, and NOT ONE dealer in Miami would consider selling me a red lincoln (1909 to 1934) for one of two reasons:

1. they didnt have any because every Lincoln in south Florida had already turned, or

2. if they had a red linc they knew it would turn in the next six months and they didn't want me to complain six months after I made the purchase

So during the period of 1980-85 I bought a nice collection of red and red brown early lincs and all red lincs from 1934 and later.

Well, this was before slabbing, so I kept the set in an airtight album (no pvc) in an air conditioned bank vault and RARELY looked at it. I sold that collection about three years ago. The set was consigned to a dealer who had every coin sold in less than two hours -- all he had to do was call a few collectors who rushed in to grab em.

Only one of the coins in my set was slabbed -- the 09svdb and all the rest were in my original album. (14d, 22-pl, 55-double not in the collection).

Bottom line -- I considered myself VERY LUCKY. After nearly two decades, it could have been a DISASTER.

So, march on courageous copper collectors!!! You have my admiration.

cheers, alan mendelson

wondercoin

I just noticed that my question was asked of DH tonight. It appears he is in the minority also - thinking it is possible for it to occur

Wondercoin

Datentype

I'll bet he does - but it will be one of PCGS's affiliates who make it and it could possibly wind up on the DHRC website or Ebay listings.

cladking

I voted yes, but it may not be a 2003 issue. (and it may be next year, but it's coming)

Stooge

I would like to see an MS70rd just like anyone else, but my question is that the Roosevelt is a much smaller coin then the Lincoln, so why isn't there more 69's or 70's of this coin? I just don't see any coin grading 70 until more of the other denominations start grading higher.

How many of you nickel guys would kill for a 2003 MS69FS?

Later, Paul.

wondercoin

Paul - You point on size is well taken. The only thing is the 2003(p)(d) Roosies simply do not appear as near perfect as some of the 2003(p) Lincoln cents I have seen thus far. With respect to the 2003(p)(d) Roosies, an MS69FB is the "dream coin" for Roosie collectors.

Wondercoin

TheNumish

I voted yes just because the coins are so nice. I think they will call a few 70 by the end of the year. Look how many MS-69 state quarters there are. On the other hand maybe Mark is right about copper turning being such a big liability. No matter what PCGS says their holders are not inert. Look how many modern gold commems tone right away. It's spooky. The percentage is so high I don't submit them anymore.

Mark

I am with Mark about the liability being very high for PCGS. Take, for instance, that PR70DCAM cent that sold this spring for near $40,000. Clearly that coin turned in the holder and is not especially near many people's view of what a PR70 should look like. While I don't think PCGS's liability is $40,000 for the coin (because I doubt PCGS would value a PR70DCAM at $40,000), I do believe that PCGS bears some cost in the form of people looking at that coin and making disparging comments about it and, by extension, PCGS. So PCGS must worry that any MS70RD it slabs might well turn, with the same costs to them that they incur with that PR70DCAM. And, as far as a cent turning in the slab, keep in mind that modern cents face two issues not faced by other coins: Copper is so incredibly reactive and, on top of that, the copper is only the outer surface and can develop bubbles over the inner zinc core. So if I were PCGS, I'd worry intensely about slabbing an MS70 cent.

I also agree with Paul: Clad dimes should have a few MS70 examples. I guess that one issue holding this back is that not too many clad dimes are submitted to PCGS. So until clad dime submissions skyrocket, perhaps we won't see an MS70 dime.

Mark

cladking

I don't believe in MS-70, but on top of that I don't believe there are or will be
any viable clad dime candidates for the "70" designation. There are some as-
toundingly well made dimes from the mid '80's which are fully PL and with no
significant marks. These appear with virtually flawless strikes from apparently
perfect dies. But they always have some tiny weakness that can keep from go-
ing MS-70. Usually there are either tiny pings or planchet scratches which will
hold it back.

There are also some fantastic dimes from the late '70's, and really almost every
date does appear in ultra high grade though several are tough. This is a great
set for a younger collector who has better eyes and more time for the coins to
become appreciated. If he can't finish the set raw then most dates will remain
relatively more affordable for longer than the scarcer moderns.