1971-S Peg Leg Ikes - Attribution with Photos
supercoin
Posts: 2,323 ✭
Finally getting around to this which I've been meaning to do for a while. I'm also about to post this on my web site and would appreciate any comments or additions that other Ike enthusiasts might have.
The 1971-S Ike proof and uncirculated coins are found in both a normal and "peg leg" variety. The peg leg refers to the R in LIBERTY, which is missing the serif on the left leg.
In proof, this variety is found in a minority of coins but is readily available.
It is theorized that it was created by a modification to the master hub, thereby creating multiple dies from which the proofs were struck. Only in the very highest grades have I found the peg-leg proof to be notably more difficult.
Normal R Peg Leg R
For a real-world example of a peg-leg, take a look at a 1972-S proof, all of which are normally found with a peg-leg.
In uncirculated, the variety is very scarce.
The origin of this uncirculated variety remains shrouded in mystery, with no fully accepted explanation yet advanced. It is not identical in appearance to the proof peg-leg, as the right leg of the R also has a more abrupt straighter appearance than the flowing curve found in the common variety.
Regardless of origin, the scarcity is not in question, and I have been able to purchase only a handful of these coins over the years.
This variety is not attributed by PCGS (although it is by some other services), but it is a well-documented variety that is easily visible to the naked eye.
Normal R Peg Leg R
The 1971-S uncirculated in general is notorious for poor quality, so you can imagine the scarce peg-leg variety is even more difficult in high grade.
In my opinion the uncirculated peg-leg is the "next big thing" for Ike varieties (after the 1972-P types) due to the combination of scarcity, interesting origins, unusual appearance, and the fact that it is readily visible with the naked eye.
The 1971-S Ike proof and uncirculated coins are found in both a normal and "peg leg" variety. The peg leg refers to the R in LIBERTY, which is missing the serif on the left leg.
In proof, this variety is found in a minority of coins but is readily available.
It is theorized that it was created by a modification to the master hub, thereby creating multiple dies from which the proofs were struck. Only in the very highest grades have I found the peg-leg proof to be notably more difficult.
Normal R Peg Leg R
For a real-world example of a peg-leg, take a look at a 1972-S proof, all of which are normally found with a peg-leg.
In uncirculated, the variety is very scarce.
The origin of this uncirculated variety remains shrouded in mystery, with no fully accepted explanation yet advanced. It is not identical in appearance to the proof peg-leg, as the right leg of the R also has a more abrupt straighter appearance than the flowing curve found in the common variety.
Regardless of origin, the scarcity is not in question, and I have been able to purchase only a handful of these coins over the years.
This variety is not attributed by PCGS (although it is by some other services), but it is a well-documented variety that is easily visible to the naked eye.
Normal R Peg Leg R
The 1971-S uncirculated in general is notorious for poor quality, so you can imagine the scarce peg-leg variety is even more difficult in high grade.
In my opinion the uncirculated peg-leg is the "next big thing" for Ike varieties (after the 1972-P types) due to the combination of scarcity, interesting origins, unusual appearance, and the fact that it is readily visible with the naked eye.
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Comments
It seems from my limited experience with these that they account for well
under 5% of production.
For whatever reason, though, I have had a hard time finding peg leg proofs in 69DCAM. In particular the cameo is lacking on most of that I've seen which knocks them out of contention before even considering marks and hairlines. Again, might just be my luck of the draw... the peg-leg proof dies I encountered may have been worn a bit.
Do you have any experience with the uncirculated peg-legs?
Great posts today. I see you had some free time finally.
<< <i>
Do you have any experience with the uncirculated peg-legs? >>
I think I've got one but would have to check. I have a lot more experience
with the uncs and have looked at considerable numbers. ~600+-
I love Ike dollars and all other dollar series !!!
I also love Major Circulation Strike Type Sets, clad Washingtons ('65 to '98) and key date coins !!!!!
If ignorance is bliss, shouldn't we have more happy people ??
Thanks
Michael
Great thread.
Not sure what the proofs will ever be worth. I can't seem to get anyone to pay much for these, even in PF69DCAM. I made 6-7 a few months ago. Put a thread on this forum for $50 in 69DCAm had no takers.
Ran a few on E-Bay with a start or $39 no takers. Tried one with a start of $19, think I sold it for $21 or soemthing like that. Then I go on Teletrade and see an ANACS attributed one in PF67DCAM go for $75 (it really sold). What gives???
My experience is that this variety is quite rare, much less than 5% of the mintage is peg leg. The other thing that I find, is that the TRUE PEG LEG has a 100% striaght serif. The one Tad has pictured, while a peg leg, doesn't seem like it is worth anything to me. The only ones I ever pull out are the ones with the straight serifs. In "The Authoritative Reference on Eisenhower Dollars" there is discussion about a partial Peg Leg, which is what I think Tad's picture references.
As for the business strike Peg Leg...that's a different story althogether. These sell for pretty good $$$$ and are very very difficult to find. In almost 20 years of searching I have found 5. The first one in 1985 at a show in New Orleans. I have sold 3 of them, one for $25 years ago before I knew how tough they were and two fro over $100 within the past 2-3 years. I have two of them slabbed now a MS65 and a MS64. This coin in MS67 could be a tough as the 72-P Type I and II in 67 in the long run.
There is a nice one pagediscussion on this business strike Peg Leg in "The Authoritative Reference on Eisenhower Dollars." This was a variety that the authors where not aware of, and I'm refereneced as the submitter.
Just some thoughts from a long time Ike guy!
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
I'm not sure if the proof peg-leg and partial-peg-leg are really that different or just variations on the same phenomenon. I actually find the "partial" more dramatic. But I haven't really paid any attention one way or another as far as rarity. I'd buy either one for $21 in 69DCAM, though.
My experience mirrors yours with the business strike peg-legs. I have found only one or two unattributed, the rest I bought at a premium. One from you, in fact. I've basically bought all I could find and still have only a tiny handful. The highest grade I've ever seen is MS65 as well.
Michael
But, it's so easily attributed (the unc versions, at least) that personally I'd just go with whatever slab matches your collection. Maybe ANACS if you were selling on Teletrade.
<< <i>For Tad or Segoja -- which service will attribute this variety -- I'm thinking ANACS.
Michael
I have several of the 1971-S Peg leg business and proof strikes attributed by anacs. >>
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
I have a 1972-S PCGS MS66 Peg Leg (not attributed). I sent it in myself in the normal submission. The ike head is actually frosted while the fields are somewhat polished due to some light die polishing. Nice coin. I think this would actually be able to upgrade to MS67 as the amound of hits are very minimal and hidden. What are they worth? Is PCGS attributing them now?
Great thread. I also have a 74 d peg leg like JR. I posted it along time ago and I'm glad there's another one out there also.
That's 2 74 D coins in the pic for comparison
<< <i>segoja, I'm not sure what you mean by 100% straight serif... or do you mean the right leg being straight?
I'm not sure if the proof peg-leg and partial-peg-leg are really that different or just variations on the same phenomenon. I actually find the "partial" more dramatic. But I haven't really paid any attention one way or another as far as rarity. I'd buy either one for $21 in 69DCAM, though.
My experience mirrors yours with the business strike peg-legs. I have found only one or two unattributed, the rest I bought at a premium. One from you, in fact. I've basically bought all I could find and still have only a tiny handful. The highest grade I've ever seen is MS65 as well. >>
The partial peg actually looks much like a pirates peg leg, the other usually is more squared and comes closer to the top of ikes head.
i have found a total of 3 peg legs in 1971-S business strikes after searching thousands, and thousands of coins. they are much tougher than the 1972-P type # 2 . also, the highest grade i have is ms 65. a ms 66, or a ms 67 would be quite a find, and would command a huge premium !!
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
The only possible conclusion to be reached after reading the article and examining the evidence is that the Straight pegleg on the 1971-S Proof coin was the original design as there is no evidence of die polishing on the Straight Pegleg Proof coins until you get to the faded pegleg of the same year. There is also some additional evidence which I name below but in a quick summary, due to the fading of the R coupled with the high price of that proof coin at the time, it is surmised that the R was crudely modified by adding serifs to the R for the second and subsequent production runs to hopefully eliminate the fading of that pesky letter.
Of course, this thinking is in direct conflict with the Authoritative Reference on Eisenhower Dollars which specifically implies that the Type II R (serifed proof) was created from one of the two original Galvano's and that the Type III R (straight pegleg) was created by modifying that Galvano by polishing off the Serif. Of course, this logic does not take into consideration that the awkward looking serifed R on the 1971-S Proof was carried over into the Copper Nickel business strikes of 1973, 1974, 1977 and 1978 as well as the proof coinage of the same years. So...which came first, the straight pegleg or the serifed R ?
Consider this..........
The original R design is evidenced on the 1971 and 1971-D CuNi clad IKEs. It looked like the coin on the left while the coin on the right is the serifed 1971-S Proof:
. .
Nothing special about the smooth, even arc's that form the serif's of the production coins. As a matter of fact, the R on the 1971-S 40% Business Strike coin was identical to the CuNi Clad coins as shown below:
Consider the photo below:
This photo above shows what the R would look like if the current edges were followed down through the serif as shown in the Straight Pegleg proof shown below:
Now the question becomes, How did the R on the left (below), become the R on the right without evidence of heavy die abrasion?
. .
Better yet, even with die abrasion, how did the R on the left (below) become the R on the right?
. .
It would be far easier for the R on the left below to become the R on the right below through regular die abrasion:
. .
It would be much easier at modifying the Master Die to go from the coin on the left (below) to the coin on the right (below);
. .
Remember that the master die had incused letters which would have been easy enough to grind a crude serif into rather than going back to the Galvano to add a serif (or remove a serif as suggested).
As for that awkward looking, unbalanced crude serif, which was carried over into the CuNi poduction coins for 1973 & 1974, there does exist die abraded pegleg versions of that R on the 1974-D CuNi coins. Those peglegs, in their early states look nothing like the 1971-S Proof Straight peglegs, as on early abrasions, the serif can plainly be seen as shown below:
Conclusive evidence that the Straight pegleg on the Proof coin was not a result of die abrasion can be seen on the DDO Pegleg proofs as shown below with the FS-106 DDO Ike:
. .
The E from the DDO coin is also shown just to show a better picture of the doubling since the R does exhibit some machine doubling in addition to Die Doubling. True, a modified Galvano could have been used to produce the Type II R's late in the game as 1971 Proofs and Business strikes were produced in late 1971 and early 1972 and the 1972 Proof and 40% Business Strike coins are all Straight Peglegs, but then why switch back to the Serifed R in 1973 - 1978?
All interesting questions which I believe have been answered by the article in the Numismatist.
Exact specific's on the Pegleg's, both 1971-S Proof and 1971-S Business strike coins, can be read about in the above named issue of the Numismatist. I picked up a couple of copies at the Vallejo Coin Show and I'm sure that other copies could be found at any number of local coin shows.
The name is LEE!
Don't know if Wiles gave me the credit for that 1972 P PegLeg(I sold him one a few years back), but I was the 1st to find one in the silver proof 74S and have the only ANACS attributed piece. I also have the only ANACS attributed ODV-003(no DDO), ODV-002 is the fading PegLeg and has a dramatic DDO. Yeah, I guess that you could say that I Like Ike(s)....
<< <i>Rarity on Peg Legs(?), check out this site: http://varietyvista.com/eisenhower_dollar_ODV_Changes.htm
>>
Linkified
<< <i>Rarity on Peg Legs(?), check out this site: http://varietyvista.com/eisenhower_dollar_ODV_Changes.htm
Don't know if Wiles gave me the credit for that 1972 P PegLeg(I sold him one a few years back), but I was the 1st to find one in the silver proof 74S and have the only ANACS attributed piece. I also have the only ANACS attributed ODV-003(no DDO), ODV-002 is the fading PegLeg and has a dramatic DDO. Yeah, I guess that you could say that I Like Ike(s).... >>
Certainly a lot has changed since this was initialy written in 2003.
Has anybody read the Numismatist article?
The name is LEE!
But would some one speak to the rarity of the 71-S unc in a peg leg.. This is the one that seems hard to come across. I havn't found 1 in 500 I have look thru
The IKE GROUP'S full article on the 71-S Peg Legs, which one can access through the ANA's web site, clears up a lot of the mystery of these fascinating Ikes. So far, readers that have taken the time to study the article, not just skimming for take-home points, have found no major issues with out observations and conclusions.
Go to www.money.org , click on Communications, then "The Numismatist", then 2008, then the link to our full article from which you can download that piece in whatever size you wish.
We know the exact mintage of the proof peg leg, for example (1,219,990) (vrs roughly 3,000,000 for the serif-R 71-S Proof). We know that the peg leg proof was minted and shipped first. While our thinking has sharpened on the specific mechanism leading to the proof peg leg fading so badly, the article's presentation is still current.
Happy to help with any Ike questions questions - I do not hide my email address, doctortrucker@aol.com.
And if you are interested and can get there, my August 1 Baltimore ANA workshop will deal with the silver peg leg Ikes and the other "New Ikes".
Lastly, we have recently found two 71-S BS FPL obverse dies and two 71-S BS SPL dies, a wonderful reminder that no one has all the answers and that Ikes will continue to reward study for many years to come. Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
Yeah, a lot HAS changed since 2003 and it's thanks to Rob and the "Ike Group" that change is in the works. Now, one of the few remaining questions is IF or WHEN the groups work will get recognized by CONECA; ie, the official web site. ANACS attributes via CONECA, and until those(http://varietyvista.com/eisenhower_dollar_ODV_Changes.htm) are changed, attributions won't change....
<< <i>Lee "Certainly a lot has changed since this was initialy written in 2003."
Yeah, a lot HAS changed since 2003 and it's thanks to Rob and the "Ike Group" that change is in the works. Now, one of the few remaining questions is IF or WHEN the groups work will get recognized by CONECA; ie, the official web site. ANACS attributes via CONECA, and until those(http://varietyvista.com/eisenhower_dollar_ODV_Changes.htm) are changed, attributions won't change.... >>
I wouldn't expect the die variety numbers to change just as I cannot expect the authors of the Authoritative Reference on Eisenhower Dollars to print up corrections or addendums to their publication. But what I do look forward to, is a collaborative effort by the authority's involved to accurately document this series. This coin was produced in my lifetime and will most certainly intrigue future generations of collectors if for no other reason than its status in the coin world as being the last large dollar coin produced by the US Mint.
Perhaps the IKE Group should consider publishing something and calling it "The Essential IKE Collector's Guide to IKE Varieties"?
The name is LEE!
The Group is going strong with two new publications accepted (the next will be in the May-June ErrorScope) and four more ready to go but we're wearing out our welcome at the major numismatic publications: too much, too fast and too much detail for the tabloid coin press which needs easy to digest populist articles and reviews for the most part.
In this regard, thanks to Barbara Gregory at The Numismatist for publishing as much of our rather dense research as she has. You can understand her sacrifice when you compare the length of our original submission with the final print version - took three weeks of hard collaborative work during which Barbara not once lost her sense of humor, even coming up with "Funny Foot" as a descriptor for the crudely added-on foot of the serif-R 71-S Proof.
Since the ANA has announced the New Ike workshop on Aug 1 at the Baltimore Convention, I can tell you that I will be holding nothing back at that workshop and will be sharing a host of new observations, three of them literally out of this world. Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
Having never been there I need a place to stay that's fairly cheap and conveniently located.
The name is LEE!
The '74-D can be found in a spectrum of "peg-leggedness" but the examples with a diminutive peg leg fading into the field are a standout among the family of die-abrasion peg legs so we named them "Major Peg Legs" (thanks be to Brian Valie).
Anyway, if you look carefully at any NI-clad peg leg you will find evidence of clash, though sometimes the reverse is a mis-matched newer die in which case you will have only the obverse on which to find such clues.
Most of Ike Die-Clash information the Group has developed is covered in my article, "A Die-Clash Grading System" - go to www.CONECAonline.org and drop down the list of current topics. The article should be there somewhere there if still posted. Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
The name is LEE!
There are several "Chopped Off E" die state varieties....mostly from the Denver Mint where they
had to stretch out the die life for maximum production. The top bar of the E in WE gets shorter
and shorter every time the die clashes and gets pulled for die abrasion to erase the clash marks.
Even some of the rare 74-D 40% Silver Ikes were struck from such a die....At least 10% show
a Peg Leg R, Talon Head mark, and "Chopped Off E".
Happy Hunting!
Brian
I Love Variety & Error Ikes!
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
<< <i>Found it. Do a Search on "Ike Group" to locate the article. >>
Or you can click here.
It's a 9mb pdf file but has lots of pictures and is well worth saving and printing out for later use.
The name is LEE!
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
I found the guide to have some really cool pictures in it that actually explains these die clashes to us one-legged mental gynmasts!
The name is LEE!
been found all at once in a casino (by searching ALL of the Ikes in the vault after a dealer found one).
They all come pretty beat up....most are AU and the rest are low-grade MS.
Based on the numbers I've seen that seems to be as good a guess as any.
Brian
The name is LEE!