$CASH$ FOR TOP POP MS Lincoln Memorials ~ OR ~ Buy Prices: Which Ones Seem Too Low (Or Too High). An

redcents

Pops & Buy Prices Updated As 10/1. Will Try To Add Newer Auction Links This Week.

Click Here If You Want to See My Proof Buy Prices

PLEASE tell me which prices seem too low & why & what you think they should be & why (auction records, mintage, pops, difficulty for the grade, etc.).

This is an attempt to increase liquidity, decrease uncertainty and create a more transparent market in TOP POP MS PCGS GRADED Lincoln Memorials (proofs next). It IS NOT an attempt to corner the market as I welcome any & all competing bids by collectors, dealers, or other interested parties. I'll be happy to post your competing bids whether higher than or lower than mine.

I welcome any & all criticism as to the idea itself about it's merit or lack thereof. I would like any criticism of the prices I'm willing to pay however to be accompanied by a higher competing offer. I'm putting my money where my mouth is and if you choose to express your opinion that the prices I'm offering seem too low, it seems that without a higher competing offer your assessment may not appear to have proper standing and will seem to be without substance. Anyone can say I'm not paying enough but if they're not going to pay more there is no real proof of that assertion.

Since I AM NOT a dealer and currently have no inventory with which to make this a true 2-way market (yet) I can only currently offer buy prices. As soon as I start to actually buy some of these I'll begin to offer them at approx. 20% over the buy price ($5 minimum) AND include free shipping/insurance AND a 14-Day NQA return policy INCLUDING the cost of return postage (first class w/deliv conf.) to me if you don't like the coin(s).

I envision that as time goes by I'll have to adjust the prices as the market dictates to begin to find an equillibrium level for each coin that will enable me - or any other party willing to participate - to basically sell all I/we can get & get all I/we can sell - i.e. find the prices where supply=demand AND someone can make a fair profit brokering them. I know the chance of this actually working in the long run may not be great but it is an attempt that I am willing to try - with my REAL money.

The format of the way the prices & competing offers/bids will be presented will necessarily have to evolve over time as needs dictate. All prices are for RED unless noted. I reserve the right to return any problem pieces. Payment within 3 days of receipt.

*********************** This is a work in progress & prices will be added/tweaked gradually over the next week or so. **************************

-------------------------------IF YOU HAVE A HIGHER OFFER IN THE MEANTIME, LET ME KNOW - I MIGHT STILL BEAT IT.---------------------------
You can either sell at the listed buy prices OR negotiate a higher price from me OR list what you want to sell with me by telling me what you have & how much you want for it (if I find a buyer willing to pay your price I'll contact you) OR let us sell it for you on eBay for %5 plus fees - and YOU can set the terms of the sale.

Explanation Of Data In Table:

e.g. 1960-D S/L 66 $750 (5) [2x0] FROM TABLE BELOW

a) 1960-D S/L b) 66 c) $750 d) (5) e) [2x0]

a) DATE e.g. 1960-D S/L
b) Current TOP POP Grade e.g. 66
c) Buying Prices For AT LEAST 1 Sight-Unseen Problem Free Coin e.g. $750
d) Recent POP in TOP POP that the price is contingent upon is in parenthesis e.g. (5) - listed for those coins that are pop dependent for the specific current buy price.
e) Bid/Ask Size - i.e. [3x2 20%] means I'll buy up to 3 at price listed & sell up to 2 at price listed plus 20%.

For items with a small lower case underlined blue/purple lettereither right after the (pop#) or right after the [bid/ask size]: "e" is a link to a recent eBay auction for that particular date, "t" for Teletrade (up to 1000 days ago but with the most recent/representative possible, "h" for Heritage, "b" for B&M. NO "h" means can't find one in top pop grade EVER sold by Heritage, no "t" means same for Teletrade, no "b" etc.

At the end of each line: "p"$ stands for the PCGS Price Guide Price (Yes I know it is NOT the current market price) & "w"$ is for Coin World Trends (Same comment). I included them both just for info sake.

Notes:
1). ALL prices have built into them my assessment of the probability that the pops WILL go up and to what extent.
2). If most up to date pop is higher at the time of transaction BEFORE I have a chance to update this table, an adjustment might be made - that you'll have a chance to agree to or not - BEFORE you send the coin(s). I'll respond to any coin offered with a FIRM price. If no pop change price in table is a MINIMUM.
3). When looking at the links I have provided to past auction prices realized keep in mind that in many cases the most recent sale was quite a while ago and may seem artificially high - due to the pop at the time of the sale being MUCH lower than it is today (I'll soon try to post the historical pops in existence at the time of the past sales). In some cases where the past sale price seems very low, it may be that that particular coin has been relatively pop stable and has simply increased substantially in value since then. For sales fairly recent with multiple occurences, I tried to include what I feel are the ones most representative of where the current masrket is at while not providing a link to each & every occurence.
4). As for the PCGS price guide & Trends prices, I think it's simple interesting to see how off they are - in both directions. I'll eventually do an analysis of what % they under state, overstate, & come within, say 10%. Again, just for curiosity sake.

If any way I can make this fairer or easier to understand please let me know.

For my part, I stand ready to buy at least 1 of each up to 10% of the total population.

Thanks,

Roger

1959 67 $2,000 (5) [1x0] p1,500, w175
1959-D 67 $200 (29) [2x0] b h t w150
1960 LD 67 $3,000 (1) [1x0] p750, w175
1960 SD 67 $2,000 (3) [1x0] p600, w200
1960-D LD 67 $2,500 (1) [1x0]
1960-D SD 67 $2500 (3) [1x0] t p750
1960-D S/L 66 $1,000 (5) [2x0] e (64 RD)
1961 67 $3,000 (1) [1x0] p1200
1961-D 66 $25 (68) [6x0] e e1 e2 e3 e4 e5 e6 h t p95
1962 67 $1,000 (4) [1x0] p850
1962-D 66 $75 (46) [4x0] e e1 h t p100
1963 67 $3,000 (1) [1x0] t
1963-D 66 $230 (18) [1x0] e h p175
1964 67 $3,000 (1) [1x0]
1964-SMS RB 65 $1,250 (1) [1x0] 64 $750 (3) [1x0] h
1964-SMS RD 68 (2) t Until PCGS puts in registry set no interest - Also unlikely to hit market. b (64RD)
1964-D 67 $1,000 (4) [1x0] p3,500
1965 67 $450 (8) t [1x0]
1965-SMS RD 68 $1,500 (2) [1x0] p350, 69 $3,000 (1) [1x0]
1965-SMS CA 66 $2,500 (2) [1x0]
1965-SMS DC 65 $4,000 (2) [1x0]
1966 67 $1,250 (3) [1x0]
1966-SMS RD 69 $3,000 (1) [1x0] h
1966-SMS CA 67 $2,000 (5) t [1x0] p1,850
1966-SMS DC 65 $5,000 (1) [1x0]
1967 67 $800 (5) [1x0] p1,500
1967-SMS RD 68 $100 (40) [3x0] e e1 b h1 h2 h3 t1 t2 p175
1967-SMS CA 67 $1,000 (8) [1x0] t1 t2 p4,000
1968 67 $380 (10) [1x0] e t p750
1968-D 67 $600 (8) [1x0] t p300
1968-S 67 $450 (21) [2x0] t1 t2 p750, 68 $3,500 (1) [1x0]
1969 67 $1,500 (2) [1x0] h p750
1969-D 67 $1,500 (2) [1x0] p750
1969-S 67 $600 (7) [1x0] p750
1969-S DDO BN: VG-VF (1) Call But $5,000 min, XF45 $8,500 (1) h , AU50 $9,500 (2), AU55 $12,000 (5) b (raw) , AU 58 $15,000 (5) h , MS62 $17,500 (1)
1969-S DDO RB: 62 $20,000 h (1)
1969-S DDO RD 64 (1) 65 (1): Don't want to sell my house for these one plus unlikely to hit the market but for 125k+ you MIGHT get a 64RD.
1970 67 $250 (15) [1x0] t p750
1970-D 67 $800 (5) [1x0] p750
1970-S LD 67 $300 (12) [1x0] t p750
1970-S SD 67 $850 (6) [1x0] p175
1970-S DDO BN: AU50 $3,000 (1), AU58 $4,000 (4), MS64 $4,500 (1)
1970-S DDO RB: 58 $4,500 (1) 63 $5,000 (1), 64 $6,000(2) b b1 (NGC 65RB)
1970-S DDO RD: 66 $35,000 (2), 65 $23,000 (3), 64 $7,000 (14) b b1 ($4,830 - Did Not Sell) b2 b3 b4 b5 (ouch!) b6 t
1971 67 $250 (23) p750
1971 DDO RB 63 $250 (2) [1x0] e (62RB)
1971 DDO RD 65 $2,000 (2) [1x0] e (64RD) 64RD $750 (7) e (AU58)
1971-D 67 $225 (18) [1x0] h p750
1971-S 67 $900 (4) [1x0] e
1972 67 $200 (20) [1x0] p750
1972 DDO 67 $3,750 (13) [1x0] t p4250, 68 $7,500 (1) [1x0]
1972-D 67 $775 (6) [1x0] p1100
1972-S 67 $600 (7) [1x0] e
1973 67 $250 (18) [1x0] e e1 p750
1973-D 67 $2,000 (1) [1x0] p750, Currenly embedded in the Domino Collection
1973-S 66 $150 (29) [2x0] e e1 p300, 750 in 67???
1974 67 $60 (41) [3x0] e e1 h t1 t2 p750
1974-D 68 $2,000 (1) [1x0]
1974-S 67 $300 (10) [1x0] p750
1975 67 $100 (33) [2x0] e e1 e2 h t p750
1975-D 67 $110 (25) [2x0] e e1 e2 h p750
1976 68 $1,350 (2) [1x0]
1976-D 67 $355 (10) [1x0] e t p750
1977 68 $1,450 (2) [1x0]
1977-D 67 $250 (14) [1x0] e e1 e2 t p750
1978 67 $150 (24) [1x0] e e1 t p750
1978-D 67 $175 (17) [1x0] e h t p750
1979 68 $1,500 (3) [1x0] e
1979-D 67 $450 (8) [1x0] e p750
1980 67 $75 (33) [2x0] e e1 e2 h t p750
1980-D 67 $350 (12) [1x0] h p750
1981 68 $2,000 (1) [1x0]
1981-D 67 $175 (19) [1x0] e e1 e2 t p750
1982 68 $400 (12) [1x0] p750 in 67, 600 in 68?
1982-D 68 $350 (15) [1x0] h t
1983 68 $200 (22) [1x0] e e1
1983 DDR 67 $900 (21) [2x0] h t p2000 (&1950 in 68???)
1983-D 68 $350 (13) [1x0] e h
1984 69 $2,000 (1) [1x0]
1984 DDO 68 $2,000 (10) [1x0] h
1984-D 68 $450 (9) [1x0] t
1985 68 $400 (12) [1x0] t p650
1985-D 69 $1,250 (2) [1x0]
1986 68 $400 (10) [1x0]
1986-D 68 $100 (26) [1x0] h t p300
1987 69 $2,000 (1) [1x0] t
1987-D 68 $350 (15) [1x0] e h t p575
1988 68 $400 (10) [1x0] e t
1988-D 69 $2,000 (1) [1x0]
1989 68 $800 (4) [1x0]
1989-D 68 $75 (33) [3x0] h t p250
1990 68 $200 (19) [1x0] h t
1990-D 69 $2,000 (1) [1x0] t
1991 68 $200 (16) [1x0] e e1 e2 t
1991-D 69 $1,000 (3) [1x0] t
1992 69 $1,000 (3) [1x0] e
1992-D 69 $1,000 (3) [1x0]
1993 69 $2,000 (1) [1x0]
1993-D 69 $800 (5) [1x0] e
1994 68 $400 (8) [1x0] e t
1994-D 69 $2,000 (1) [1x0]
1995 68 $80 (32) [1x0] t
1995 DDO 68 $80 (1189) [1x0] b e e1 h t p250
1995-D 69 $2,000 (1) [1x0]
1996 68 $50 (31) [1x0] h t
1996-D 69 $2,000 (1) [1x0] t
1997 68 $1,500 (2) [1x0]
1997-D 68 $300 (18) [1x0] h p300
1998 68 $350 (16) [1x0]
1998 Wide AM 67 $150 (5) [1x0]
1998-D 69 $1,500 (2) [1x0]
1999 68 $20 (142) [1x0] e e1 h t
1999 Wide AM 66 $125 (5) [1x0] 67 $250 (4) [1x0]
1999-D 69 $95 (44) [4x0] e e1 h t, Typetone $100, fantasiize $100
2000 69 $600 (5) [1x0]
2000 Wide AM 67 $100 (25) [2x0], 68 $300 (1) [1x0]
2000-D 69 $750 (4) [1x0] e h
2001 69 $160 (22) [2x0] e
2001-D 69 $180 (19) [1x0] e e1 h t
2002 69 $50 (84) [8x0] e t
2002-D 69 $60 (56) [5x0] e e1 e2 e3 e4 t
2003-P 69 $20 (165) [15x0 20%] e e1 e2 e3 e4 e5 e6 e7 e8 e9 e10 e11 e12 e13 e14 e15 e16 e17 e18 e19 e20 e21 e22 e23 e24 e25 e26 e27 e28 e29
2003-D 69 $35 (58) [4x0 20%] e e1 e2 e3 e4 e5 e6 e7

If no name on buy price, it's me. If someone else I'll note it. If not me, please PM other buyer & deal direct.
Inquire for prices on multiples

Last thoughts: I think most people interested in a particular coin have about 4 prices in their heads for it. I define those 4 as - "great deal", "fair deal" "slight stretch" & "way too much". e.g. given current selling prices on 2003P's in MS69RD, one might think a "great deal" is $60-75, a "fair deal" as $90-100, a "slight stretch" as perhaps $125, and "way too much" as perhaps $175-200. This is just a hypothetical example, but the point I'm making is that if people at least offered their "fair deal" buy price or even their "great deal" buy price IMHO the market would benefit tremendously.

Also, anyone other than me think that the rate that the value of many (most? all?) of these is decreasing due to the pop increases is EXCEEDING the rate that the value of many of these is increasing due to demand or other factors? i.e. are pop increases putting NET downside pressure on many or most (or all) of these? If not some of them, which of them do you think are "exempt" form this force or at least are least susceptible to this factor?

Other interesting sales: 1941DD-T1

Cocoinut

It's a great idea, and should create some stability in pricing for both buyers and sellers. It would be helpful to show the grades that your prices are for, because it's likely that the top pops could eventually be bumped up a grade or two. Also, will your prices be for just sight-seen coins? We all know that there are high-end and low-end coins for every grade, so it seems risky and/or unfair to quote the same price for coins at both ends of the spectrum. Maybe it would be best to give minimum prices for a given grade, and note that high-end coins will be worth more than the "just-made-its".

I like the concept you envision, and wish there were more market makers that had the guts to do the same for other series.

Jim

redcents

Main thread edited to incorporate your suggestions/comments.

cladking

Of course if you do this right you'll be a dealer, and quite successful.

Good luck.

lincolnSence

redcents - interesting concept. I think most if not all dealers will be pissed off at the concept. But to me some of the pricing looks low compared to the prices we already seem to be experiencing in the market. That being said, does that just make your list a personal want list that dealers can go to? It probably doesn't reflect accurately what the market would call their buy prices. So, by showing my support for such a system, I would suggest that with the pricing so far in the spreadsheet I would also be a buyer of any coin you have listed at those prices. Please PM me if you can sell at the listed prices.

redcents

I greatly appreciate your input. I don't see how anyone could be "p****d off" at the concept. Dealers have coinnet, Eureka trading, numismedia wholesale & other networks that THEY publish buy prices on. Surely they would want others to have a similar opportunity (albeit much more limited in this initial version). This is NOT just a wantlist for me as I have over half of the coins I've already listed prices for in top pop already.

As mentioned - THIS IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION - AND it will take a couple of weeks to list all the prices AND to tweak them to be at the most realistic level (as defined as the level that will achieve some semblance of the type of equillibrium previously mentioned). I hope that during that time many others also provide their buy prices so that the market can emerge with as little input from or impact by me as possible.

I assume that since you would be a willing buyer at those prices already listed you want me to add you to the list as another market-maker. If at a somewhat higher level than me just let me know what you'll pay & go on record that you are committed to the prices you quote & I'll be happy to add you to the list. This is on an honor system. Thanks for your support.

Thanks,

Roger

dldallen

Interesting indeed. One thing though is the competition to get these top pop coins. It will always go where the money is depending on who wants it bad enough. In this case, with six of the 10 complete Lincoln sets at 68.00 set average and higher, those ten sets are more than likely only looking at top pops to advance. There are lots of sets below who are probably looking at them also and at that certain point in time when a top pop appears, may have the extra cash to buy. That in itself creates an artificially lucrative market for any dealer or collector that hapens to make one. And any savvy dealer or collector is going to take advantage of that market to get top dollar. DHRC and DLRC are other dealers that advertise their prices. But rarely do you see top pop coins and if you do, they are not there for very long. The few I've seen had prices higher than a few of those you posted.

While your concept is sound if it were a static market, in reality, it is very dynamic. One collector recently offered up some Lincolns to many of us. I too placed what I thought were fair prices based on what similar items had been selling for. The collector refused most bids and sent them to auction. I actually bought one of them for about half of my original bid. What were the dynamics involved? Lack of interest? Collectors too busy in Baltimore? Summer time market doldrums? Quantity of other top pops on the market at the same time? Too many things to consider in such a dynamic market to get stuck on a static price. But hey, that's all part of the hunt!

I don't know if I could really sit down with pen to paper and say what I would pay in the future for a top pop coin. Besides the market dynamics, I also have to consider my personal means to buy one on a fixed income, how or if the seller will work with me flexibly, and any residual cash flow from selling extras and the replacement coin.

Just so I can also add some credence (read a dollar figure) to your proposal, I will tell you that I had two offers on the 1959 MS67RD pop 5/0 I recently made. Both offers topped yours with the highest being $1,500, which I would consider a fair price IF it were for sale. NO, it's not for sale!

Good luck with your endeavor and who knows, you may be able to tame this market one day! Dave

Manorcourtman

Ok, here is my opinion. Noone will ever set a market price. If you are vain enough to believe you have any effect on the market you are clueless. The market sets the price, depending on demand. I had the honor to meet the 3 of the top 5 Lincoln sets ever recorded at the ANA show in Baltimore. Price is not an issue to the top pop Lincoln collectors. I will give one example..........I sold a 1999 Wide AM MS66 for $500. You suggest an MS67 for $300. Not even close to the market value. I would like to buy gas for .49 cents a gallon but the real market won't let me. What is your point in trying to dictate market prices? I don't get it.

M.

KenzoT

Yea,
How come you offered me $600 for my MS67 1999 Ty2 a few weeks ago and now its only $300 and the pop has not gone up?
This idea will not work and is SELF SERVING to you.
Go away!

wondercoin

"Yea,How come you offered me $600 for my MS67 1999 Ty2 a few weeks ago and now its only $300 and the pop has not gone up?
This idea will not work and is SELF SERVING to you.
Go away!"

Kenzo - REDCENTS can post any buy prices he choses to post. And, anyone who is serious about selling a Lincoln cent can easily use this pricing as a springboard to call or PM any number of serious Memorial cent buyers (including myself) to sell the vast majority of the coins on this list for more money IMHO. If "lowball" values are set in place for these coins (and I am not suggesting that is the intention), it just makes my job that much easier to buy these coins

Wondercoin

redcents

In a nutshell, you guys (Manorcourtman & Kenzo T) are SERIOUSLY jumping the gun on the harsh criticism! Did you even bother to read ALL I have said or are you just looking for ANY reason to slam me?! Put up or shut up I say!!! This is just 1 day old. As previously mentioned:

THIS IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION - AND it will take a couple of weeks to list all the prices AND to tweak them to be at the most realistic level (as defined as the level that will achieve some semblance of the type of equillibrium previously mentioned). I hope that during that time many others also provide their buy prices so that the market can emerge with as little input from or impact by me as possible. <<<<< DID YOU EVEN READ THIS STATEMENT? DOES IT SOUND VAIN? YOU SOUND LIKE SOMEONE THAT HASN'T READ THIS THOUGH OR IS HOPELESSLY BIASED FOR WHATEVER REASON.

I think I have 13 days left by my statement above although I think I'll have it tweaked by next Friday.

Anyone is free to go on record as paying more than me for any coin.

"No one will ever set a market price. If you are vain enough to believe you have any effect on the market you are clueless. The market sets the price, depending on demand." "What is your point in trying to dictate market prices? I don't get it."

I'm NOT trying to DICTATE anything. I'm just in the process of BEGINNING to post the prices I'M willing to pay. Others are free to do the same. Period.
Yes, the KEY word is ONE - No ONE. A market takes many participants. I am not vain. I DO have SOME effect on the market for these - how much others can decide. The market DOES set the price - a market is made up of willing buyers & willing sellers. I am one.

I reitterate: I would like any criticism of the prices I'm willing to pay however to be accompanied by a higher competing offer. I'm putting my money where my mouth is and if you choose to express your opinion that the prices I'm offering seem too low, it seems that without a higher competing offer your assessment may not appear to have proper standing and will seem to be without substance. Anyone can say I'm not paying enough but if they're not going to pay more there is no real proof of that assertion.

As for the 1999 Wide AM, I guess I have more knowledge of the market than you on this one . I know for a FACT, that AT LEAST 1 person has ROLLS of them yet to be graded or do you think the pops will never go up? Is someone NOT allowed to be willing to pay 2x a few weeks ago and only x today?

Note MY words you apparently overlooked: I know the chance of this actually working in the long run may not be great but it is an attempt that I am willing to try - with my REAL money.

RELLA

Ok first I have to say to KenzoT and Manorcourtman...I think that you are not understanding the concept. It is the intention of redcents that at any one time any collector of popX/0 Memorial Lincolns will enjoy some guaranteed dollar level of liquidity. These minimum guaranteed buy prices are not market value...any dealer that pays as much as any collector would pay for a coin better only play in "DOUBLE NUCLEAR!!!!!" areas of the hobby. I think redcents would be shocked (and would be rushing to check the pop reports) if he were offered any coins at these levels; with his coming forward to offer a price on ANY pop-top Memorial he better start out carefully or he'll be missing his house and still not have that 1969-S DDO in MS6XRD. I'm sure his prices will migrate upwards in stages until he finds that he is being offered a reasonable amount of inventory.

I have more to say, but its getting late...and there will be more time to post another day.

P.S. Manorcourtman...in response to some of your statements...Money is an object. The market can be and is manipulated. Prices are dictated by buyers. Individuals can set market prices. I have an effect on the market. While these statements are not exclusive they are true. However, not long ago I would have agreed with your statements 100%...but then again I've learned a lot lately (and for everything I learn I usually also find out that I've missed three other things). I think you're reasonably intelligent; I can only hope you don't REALLY think I'm clueless in stating my belief that I can effect the market.

RELLA

cladking

There are many different ways an individual can affect the supply and
the demand for something. The establishment of an effective two-way
market for these coins would likely improve the demand, and by exten-
tion, increase the price. Eventually there will be much more stable mar-
kets in these coins simply because it will be in a few individual's best in-
terests and because it is the nature of the beast. When it does occur it
will be seen to have been in everyone's best interest.

wondercoin

Roger: Hi. Contact "MrEureka" from our boards (Andy) to discuss with him joining his network and thereby being able to post your buy bids on all the memorials you desire.

Wondercoin

Manorcourtman

Rella,

I mean no dissrespect to you or your business. But if you can control or have a major impact on any market it is clearly not a free market. I would offer you a comparison. The oil market is not a free market but controlled by a select few in the world. It is a cartel. OPEC has the final say-so of 80-90% of all the worlds oil. They dictate the price. Just an example but if you own 75% on the supply of PCGS 1917 MS67RD Lincoln pennies, you will have a major impact on the final selling price of this coin when it comes to market (since you control the opening bid!) . I would suggest you have a monopoly. With any limited resource the major player will always control the market until someone comes up with a better or similar product to sell on the open market. The great thing about coins is that will never happen.....unless someone is sitting on numerous unopened or undisclosed 1917 mint bags!! Sorry for the econ. 101 lecture but free markets and monopolies are different. Congrats if you control your market. You most have done your homework. You are smarter than the average bear in your specialty. "Ain't that America'"!!

M. in Flyover country....one of the Blue States......


Friends don't let friends vote Democrat

segoja

First I applaud Redcents for taking the time to do this analysis. It should be a working document as he points out!

All this noise about monopolies and oligopolies (thought I'd never use that word outside of school) is just bunk!!!

The coin market is about as free an economic market as any in the world. In fact ease of entry and exit is about as easy as any market in the world. Last I recall from economics (yes it was 20 years ago) the basic definition of a competitive market was ease of entry and exit. To get into the market, call yourself a dealer and you are. Decide you're not, and your back out. A few bucks as a collector and your in. Sell your coins on this thread, and you're back out!!! The other definition was number of participants, and this thread shows many participants. A classic free, competitive and open market.

In the case of coins or even more specific Lincoln Cents, just this thread read by an economist would tell us this is a free market not a monopoly, oligopoly or cartel which is a form of oligopoly.

If someone wanted to "corner" the market, he or she could theoretically do this from a supply side. Let's assume that all the supply is known and that little if any "new" supply will enter the market. That given, there is still considerable risk that the "market cornerer" will take upon himself. By owning most of the supply, then jacking up the price (That would be the monetray reason to corner the market, which is a fundamental tenet of economics) the MC is banking that others will pay the price. If the buyers (demand) decide the price is too high, they will simply shift to another date or series. If the demand shifts away, then the MC loses big time. Most likely sells at a bargin price, disbursing the supplly and the markets moves back to equlibrium. Again this is classic macro economics 101

As for the comment about Redcents offering $600 a few weeks ago, and now dropping the price, it sounds like the potential seller should have taken the "way too much" offer and run. This is the problem with these super high prices for coins that may or may not prove to be rare in the future. Today a coin is worth $1000 because there is only one, then tomorrow 4 more get made and the price drops to $200. Do the math on this example and we still have market equlibrium. You play in this game and sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. You are much better off "finding" this materail than buing it.

Signed an economist with an AB in economics and an MBA with economic concentration. Some may say a BS, but that's ok by me!:

TWQG

Interesting idea.
The dealers already appear nervous albeit thinly veiled.

wondercoin

Sean: I just tried to buy a fresh deal of Memorials this morning at pices close to 2x those listed here and the dealer passed. I told him I was paying nearly 2x the "published buy prices" and he simply laughed at me.

Wondercoin

redcents

Hi Mitch,

If you post which coins EXACTLY you'd be willing to pay "Close To 2x" for (how close is the real question) I'll adjust whatever price is currently a "lowball" (OR I just might sell you mine) & I promise I won't laugh. I would greatly appreciate your input and expertise in helping me get this tweaked.

redcents

To dldallen

Dave,

Thank you for you well thought out evaluation of my idea. I agree with most of it. Two areas of discussion below: (Your words in bold)

"DHRC and DLRC are other dealers that advertise their prices" & "The few I've seen had prices higher than a few of those you posted"
I thought they only posted their selling prices (I could be wrong).

"Too many things to consider in such a dynamic market to get stuck on a static price."
I agree. But I don't intend for my prices to be static. Granted they may not move as fast as the market does but will change as often as I feel necessary based on the data I observe with respect to prices realized, want lists, sell lists, etc... Again, I'm NOT trying to be the one that pays the most for every coin at every time. I'm just trying to inject some stability and "base" in the pricing structure. If it's a coin I really need - i.e. have a greater demand for (just like if a dealer had it on someone's wantlist at a particular price) I'll be a stronger bidder for that one, if not, then the opposite may apply. Even if this was just a personal wantlist (WHICH IT IS NOT), if I offer $400 for a coin that a dealer may have offered $350 for previously & then sold to me for $500, both the seller & I am better off. Think of the possibilities...

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

The prices of Lincoln Memorials is controlled by Gerry

RELLA

redcents

cladking:

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

redcents

Thanks for the kind words Craig. Lincoln Proofs are next. MAYBE Washington's in the distant future. Beginning on a website for this very purpose right now. Will keep you posted.

redcents

"The prices of Lincoln Memorials is controlled by Gerry "

I thought Gerry only controlled the proof prices Link

wondercoin

Roger: Just generally speaking, many of the prices appear upwards of 25%-50% too low IMHO. Of course, the true method of proving that is established sales prices. As coins come on the market, better prices can be set out I think.

Wondercoin

cladking

As to the question of the general direction of prices at the current time:

I don't really follow the cent market closely enough to have a good feel for it. It
would not be particularly alarming if the general trend were down simply because
the demand is still much lower than it is for the older coins. The high prices that
high grade examples are bringing would certainly lead to much higher submission
rates so supply can overtake demand for a period of time. Eventually the demand
for later date coins will be as high as it is for the earlier coin and may well be far
higher since they will generally be far more affordable at least in lower grades.

Gem cents do tend to be more available from mint sets than most of the other de-
nominations. Availability is however much more hit and miss than the other coins.
There are also substantially more BU rolls and bags than for any other modern, so
those which do appear as gems in rolls can be far more common.

Cent demand is also more difficult to predict than the other denominations. These
are being collected by newbies, but the unavailability of many dates in pocket change
could dampen demand for them at least in the long term. In the shorter term, the dis-
continuance of the denomination or a change in design for The 200th anniversary of
the Lincolns birth could provide a powerfull stimulus. Even the anticipation of a design
change could dramatically affect these under appreciated coins.

merz2

redcents
Great attempt at stabilizing the market prices.
Stewart
"Gerry controls the memmorial market" ? Where did you get that info ?

redcents

"Of course, the true method of proving that is established sales prices. As coins come on the market, better prices can be set out I think."

Mitch, I couldn't agree more. Had I kept track of ALL past sales of these I would be closer than I am now. I'd still love to know which prices you'd pay more than though.

IrishMike

I think this is going to be one difficult task as the prices fluctuate so much. It's been proven that unreal money will be paid for certain coins.

redcents

segoja:

"If someone wanted to "corner" the market, he or she could theoretically do this from a supply side. Let's assume that all the supply is known and that little if any "new" supply will enter the market. That given, there is still considerable risk that the "market cornerer" will take upon himself. By owning most of the supply, then jacking up the price (That would be the monetray reason to corner the market, which is a fundamental tenet of economics) the MC is banking that others will pay the price. If the buyers (demand) decide the price is too high, they will simply shift to another date or series. If the demand shifts away, then the MC loses big time. Most likely sells at a bargin price, disbursing the supplly and the markets moves back to equlibrium. Again this is classic macro economics 101"

Thanks for the encouragement and the WELL THOUGHT OUT analysis. This explains in a nutshell what some (Manorcourtman & Kenzo T & probably others) just don't get, In fact I HAVE cornered (100% monopolized the supply) the market on a few coins but HAVE NOT gotten rich from them. It wasn't even 'cause I was trying - they just happened to be pop 1/0's

redcents

IrishMike:

I agree. It IS proving very difficult but I've already been offered some coins & hope to keep raising my prices so I get more.

redcents

Thanks Don. I'm trying. I wish people told me how much they wanted if my prices are too low. At least I'd have a chance to reconsider my reasoning for a particular price.

redcents

Pops & Prices Updated as of 9/13

redcents

Updated as of 9/24/03.