Anyone recognize this toning as being AT?

jbsteven

I have seen a few Morgans with the same color purple and can say the ones I have owned and seen were AT. What do you think of this one. Forget that it is in a NGC slab.

Russ

It's real toning - just a crappy image.

Russ, NCNE

jbsteven

that is a very strange purple color!

Russ

JB,

I don't think the coin would be that purpley in hand. Probably more like an indigo shade.

Russ, NCNE

jbsteven

ohhhhh noooooowwwwww I get it

all seriousness there is something about the whole coin too. the color goes into the denticles at 12:30 and that light bluish color on the cheek reminds me of 2 coins I had a Long Beach.

Russ

HMM...you might be right. I played around with the image a bit, and even with multiple adjustments to try and compensate for the lousy scan, that purple still comes out looking funky. You don't think NGC would holder an AT'd coin, do you?

Russ, NCNE

K6AZ

JB, how long have you been dealing with toned Morgans?

jbsteven

remember how I told you I had 2 of them that looked like that? A dealer walked up to me at Long Beach and wanted to sell me one in a PCGS holder. You should have seen the look on his face when I grabbed 2 out of my backstock that looked just like his with the funky purple color.

wingedliberty

Its not AT! Its natural and gorgeous!

Brian.

jbsteven

Eric

If you are going to try and belittle me on my knowledge please there is no need.

I am fairly new to selling toned coins. I can tell you that the coin above looks AT to me. I have had 2 that look similar and they scream AT to me and 3 other toned dealers that looked at them.

jbsteven

if the above coin is a board members, please accept my apologies as I am not trying to hurt anyone feelings but it has a funny look to me.

wingedliberty

JB:
Its not my coin and I am not offended. I am just curious as to what is funny about the coin?. It has the same rainbow pattern that I have seen on dozens of 83 and 84-O Morgans in PCGS and NGC and other services' holders.

Brian.

cherrypickincoin

Judging from that photograph, I would have to agree on it being AT. That is based on the pattern of the toning and the strong purple color mixed with the red. This is really better to determine having the coin in hand. That being said, I will trust NGC's opinion on the coin and hope the picture is just lying to us.

K6AZ

You mean other "toned coin dealers" like the one who two years ago was selling AT'ed ACG coins?

I asked because it is painfully obvious you are new to toned Morgans. This particular coin is imaged with a scan, which are usually horribly off in colors. What you have to look for in scans are the color patterns. I didn't have to look at the image for more than a second to see that it is an original, bag toned Morgan.

jbsteven

Brian

it is that certain purple color that tell me it is AT. Also the faint blue on the cheek is exactly like the 2 AT ones I had.

I wish GSAGUY was here

wingedliberty

K6:
My earlier post confirms what you just said. See several posts up.

Brian.

wingedliberty

As stated in my posts on this thread. I agree with K6 100%, NT all the way! I have seen dozens of these in PCGS and NGC holders at shows and on scans. Same pattern and a very common pattern on 83-O and 84-O examples.

Brian.

braddick

<< <i>You mean other "toned coin dealers" like the one who two years ago was selling AT'ed ACG coins?

I asked because it is painfully obvious you are new to toned Morgans. This particular coin is imaged with a scan, which are usually horribly off in colors. What you have to look for in scans are the color patterns. I didn't have to look at the image for more than a second to see that it is an original, bag toned Morgan. >>

Dang. You sell a couple of AT'ed ACG Kennedies, never to do it again, and you're branded for life!

jbsteven

Eric

you may have your opinion and I have mine.

also it is "painfully obvious" that you have a certain attitude about your knowledge and cannot be told you MIGHT be wrong. Just leave it as I have my opinion and you have yours.

jbsteven

thank you braddick

cherrypickincoin

Jason,

It would have been better if you cropped the image and displayed the coin by itself without the slab. If you notice, almost everyone that posts raw toned coins here gets huckled and kidded for them being 'AT' but wowsie, once it's in a slab the whole view changes. It is impossible to be 100% but I think you are accurate in at least questioning it. Wait a week and post it again without the slab and then see your answers...

K6AZ

Hey, you are the one who started this thread. If you don't know such an obvious orginal bag toned Morgan like that when you see it, I would say you have a lot of work to do.

wingedliberty

Braddick:
I am enjoying the heck out of the 1921 Rainbow Morgan you sold me.
Thanks again. That is the most natural toning I have ever seen on a 1921.

Brian.

jbsteven

Eric

you are right

K6AZ

Cherrypickincoin: It wouldn't matter in my case, I didn't pay any attention to the slab. I have handled thousands of these over the last 26 years and this happens to be one of the patterns of true bag toning that stick out like a sore thumb. I have made good amounts of money buying coins with this pattern raw, getting them in holders, and reselling them.

KlectorKid

Reminds me a bit of those peace dollars. You know the AT ones that all got into NGC holders and all look almost identical. Something to do with the color flow. AT.

Russ

NGC is certainly not infallible:

Tonecoin2003 cooked Carver.

Now in an NGC holder graded MS65.

Russ, NCNE

cherrypickincoin

Amazing how different the lighting on the photo on the bottom makes it look.

K6AZ

Auction in Question

Currently $1200+ with the juice.

WWW

Hey K6AZ, why are you being so harsh with jbstevens? And while I'm at it, why would you be proud of being mean, grumpy and old? Oh wait, I just answered my own question. Never mind. There are virtues to be proud of and then there are ones that you really should be ashamed of.

sinin1

It does not look authentic to me - color lines do not have very much arc - almost straight - seems like there is too much of the lighter color on the left field in comparison to the greens and purple


the reverse clinches it for me - seeing an attempt at album toning on the reverse with bag toning on the obverse - if it was blast white, maybe - but with that reverse

it should be a $50-60 coin not a $1200


NGC maybe faster and cheaper, but their slabbing fake colors may come back and haunt them down the road.


as a disclaimer - I have not seen thousands of coins like this, with this combination, and hope I never do

K6AZ

I haven't come close to being harsh. He posted an obvious original bag toned Morgan and questioned if it was original or not. Somebody who buys and sells these should know such an obvious bag toned coin when they see it. And we're talking Heritage here with their awful scans. Seems the whole case for AT is the purple, which is most likely an artifact of the scan.

K6AZ

sinin1 - Last year I submitted two coins with this exact pattern on the obverse and reverse and they both were graded MS64 at PCGS.

cherrypickincoin

It was less about the color for me as it was the actual pattern of the toning, especially down the center on the obverse. I must concede that it is difficult to tell through a scan and thus, as I said earlier, I will take NGC's word for it until proven otherwise. They are, however, like Russ said, not perfect.

DCAMFranklin

<< <i>Hey K6AZ, why are you being so harsh with jbstevens? And while I'm at it, why would you be proud of being mean, grumpy and old? Oh wait, I just answered my own question. Never mind. There are virtues to be proud of and then there are ones that you really should be ashamed of. >>

jbsteven

the coin did not meet it's reserve........wonder why? Maybe the live auction bidders could tell it was AT, just my opinion though.

ColonialCoinUnion

Looks AT to me.

K6AZ

<< <i>the coin did not meet it's reserve........wonder why? Maybe the live auction bidders could tell it was AT, just my opinion though. >>



Are you saying that because the coin did not meet the reserve it is AT?

By the way, there were three virtually identical coins in PCGS holders. Funny how those didn't get mentioned.

jbsteven

Are you saying that because the coin did not meet the reserve it is AT?

One of the reasons yes (this is my opinion, we know yours)

By the way, there were three virtually identical coins in PCGS holders. Funny how those didn't get mentioned.

did not see them. wanna show them to me?

DCAMFranklin

<< <i>the coin did not meet it's reserve........wonder why? Maybe the live auction bidders could tell it was AT, just my opinion though. >>




I thought we had been assured that these auctions were going to bring lots and lots of big bidders with plenty of record prices?? We're already seeing coins not meeting their reserve? Hmmmm.......

K6AZ

<< <i>By the way, there were three virtually identical coins in PCGS holders. Funny how those didn't get mentioned.

did not see them. wanna show them to me? >>



Sorry, I didn't track any of those auctions and I am not wading through them again. Look at both the Baltimore Signature and Bullet auctions.

The bottom line here is that as far as I am concerned, that coin is NT. That pattern is encountered frequently with 83-84-85 New Orleans dollars.

As far as AT'ed coins making it into holders, I have seen questionable coins in both PCGS and NGC holders. There seems to be a concerted effort by some to say that NGC is slabbing a lot of AT'ed coins. Funny, since last year I have broke out and crossed over 60 Morgans from NGC to PCGS holders, and not one has come back from PCGS in a BB.

jbsteven

I am going to see if the coin is at the ANA and look at it myself. I will have a well respected expert from this board do the same. I will report on the progress from the ANA.