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1878 $ VAM 22

ChrisTuckerChrisTucker Posts: 92
in U.S. Coin Forum
I have had a 1878 Morgan for some time now that I have in an album. I noticed, when I first brought her home, that she seemed unusual. Like most women, you would expect some irregularities, and maybe even find them charming. So I did, find her charming that is.

I was unsure as to whether or not she may be special to more than just me, so I kept an eye out on the boards and Ebay, watching for a woman just like her. Seems she was a very scarce specimen. Sometime last week I finally found another one that seemed just like her. The most interesting part though, is that others found her special for another, deeper reason.

Enough pros, heres the scoop. I searched for coins in the date range that where listed with any vam attributes. I then searched for a weak strike area (at least that's what I call it) inside the right wing area. It is quite a large open patch and I thought I could find it easily. It took a long time, about 4 months, but I found an example of it on ebay, Link. Funny thing is, though, the VAM 22 attribution seems to be based solely on the LIB in Liberties crown. I did some pics and used my 60x hand scope to veryfy that in fact the LIB seems filled, or weak.

A few questions: why isn't the wing mentioned in the VAM attributes I have found (oonly internet searches); wo would be the best person/service to have verify the VAM 22 attribution; and should I have it certified throuh PCGS?

I welcome other stories of newbies like myself coming accross something interesting like this as well......


Thanks.. Chris
Calling all Morgans!!!
My Ebay Items

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    DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Welcome Chris. I'm not much of a Morgan guy, but if attribution is your goal, go to CONECA . You'll find submission instructions on the site, along with their variety masterlist.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
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    SDCollectorSDCollector Posts: 886 ✭✭
    Can you post a picture of your coin? There's a lot of VAM experts here. I haven't used them yet, but ANACS seems to be a good choice for attribution.
    Bill
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    GilbertGilbert Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭
    ChrisTucker,

    I'm not sure I understand what you're asking, but, I can tell you off the top of my head that the attribution of the 1878 VAM 22 is NOT based solely on LIB.

    Are you using any publications for attribution? If you are going to VAM hunt, you would do well to procure 2 or 3.

    The VAM Book is a must, and there you will find more diagnostics used to attribute Morgan dollars. As for the V22, off the top of my head I can tell you that for the coin to even be considered in the Vam 1 thru 23 range it has to have 8 tailfeathers. The wing phenomena you mentioned is considered "an overpolished" wing.

    V22 is one of five "dual-hubbed" 8tf reverses, and is distiguished by the reverse, NOT the LIB on the obverse. The obverse is the same as a V80. If you want to delve into VAMing, I can point you in the right direction. image
    Gilbert
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    MAULDEMALLMAULDEMALL Posts: 328
    That was a good answer Gilbert...Now you got me looking.
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    LouisLouis Posts: 3,687
    Welcome to the boards image
    image

    image
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    ChrisTuckerChrisTucker Posts: 92
    What VAM books would you suggest Gilbert? I have not looked very hard for one yet, I heard they were expensive.

    Does CONECA attribute Morgans? I didn't see anything mentioned about that on their web site...


    I will work on pictures to post.

    Thanks all for your replies.

    Chris
    Calling all Morgans!!!
    My Ebay Items
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    ChrisTuckerChrisTucker Posts: 92
    Here are some huge pics.
    Calling all Morgans!!!
    My Ebay Items
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    SDCollectorSDCollector Posts: 886 ✭✭


    << <i>What VAM books would you suggest Gilbert? >>



    I can answer that one for you. The Morgan and Peace Dollar Encylopedia by Van Allen and Mallis (VAM book) is essential. That's the expensive book you're referring to. I paid around $70 for mine at Jake's. It's worth every penny. You'll be amazed at how much 2 guys can write about Morgans.

    Gilbert can recommend a few other resources that he uses, but for now I just use the VAM book. BTW Gilbert is very knowledgeable. He has helped me get started. It's been a slow process for me but fun and challenging. FYI the 1878 is the most difficult date to attribute, so you may get very discouraged if you start there. I started with an 1879-S that took about an hour to attribute, but it was gratifying when I hit upon the right number (I think image ).

    Also ANACS appears to be the attributor of choice for most VAM collectors.
    Bill
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    ChrisTuckerChrisTucker Posts: 92
    Is this the book?

    Ebay link


    Alot of good information just in this thread. Gilbert, I think I am going to be very interested in VAM collecting. I hope you can sl;eep at night now.

    Thanks

    Chris
    Calling all Morgans!!!
    My Ebay Items
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    TWODOGSTWODOGS Posts: 1,419
    The book in the ebay auction, is in fact, the one talked about here.

    It looks as if your 8TF is indeed a Vam 22. As best as I can tell from your pictures, a number of attributes are correct for the 22. Die markers such as die cracks and the engraved feathers between the wings and legs on the reverse are enough to make the attribution.

    I doubt if you will see any bids at $2000 on the MS-64 coin in the auction you linked, however, since Hartnett and Oxman's "The 1878 Morgan Dollar 8-TF Attribution System" book put the value of a 64 at $350-$425 in 1998. But who knows, 5 years, a lot can change.
    J.C.
    *******************************************************************************

    imageimageSee ya on the other side, Dudes. image
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    VamCollectorVamCollector Posts: 347 ✭✭
    Looks like a V22 to me.
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    ChrisTuckerChrisTucker Posts: 92
    Wow, what awesome replies.

    I have placed a bid on one of the two VAM books currently for sale on ebay, that I could find. Thanks Gilbert for the help.

    I am takeing good care of my $44 purchase now that it may be worth 10x as much...

    Now, the one question I need answered, in your opinion, should I get it slabbed? I would then have to replace it in my album with another lady.


    Thanks

    Chris
    Calling all Morgans!!!
    My Ebay Items
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    TWODOGSTWODOGS Posts: 1,419
    If you decide to sell, having it slabbed with the VAM # on the label would increase your chance at realizing more money. If you are going to keep it, put it in an airtite or Coin World slab.
    J.C.
    *******************************************************************************

    imageimageSee ya on the other side, Dudes. image
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    GilbertGilbert Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭
    Apologies for the delayed response. I PMed ChrisTucker, but thought I should c&p here for any others interested

    ChrisTucker,

    I use these books:

    The VAM Book as mentioned (The Complete Catalog and Encyclopedia of Morgan & Peace Dollars) and its 2002 supplement ($69)

    The 1878 Morgan Dollar 8TF Attribution System ($30)

    The 1878 Morgan Dollar 7/8TF Attribution Guide ($30)

    A Guide to the 1879-S Reverse of 1878 Morgan Silver Dollars ($30)

    Hot 50 Morgan Dollar Varieties ($30)

    The Top 100 Morgan Dollar Varities: The VAM Keys ($24)

    and I have a copy of The Morgan and Peace Dollar Textbook, by Wayne Miller - though this is a nice to have book for me - I rely on the VAM Book primarily

    Prices are approximate for the time I purchased them.

    Gilbert

    Gilbert

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