Full Seated Lincoln?

LAWMAN

I was looking over a bunch of very highly graded PCGS modern Lincolns the other night. I noticed that in some really, really well struck ones you can practically see the whole Lincoln, including suggestion of the face, seated inside the Memorial. On others, even well struck and highly graded, it is just a blob. Would there be any support in the con collecting world for a modern Lincoln cent (1959 and on) with FSL-- Full Seated Lincoln? Could everybody agree on what it should look like? Does anybody (of all you incredibly talented digital photographers out there) have any photos to share? Or was it just the full moon?

Placid

Like this? (a ms67)

Cam40

I,ve seen varying degrees of detail of Lincoln on the reverse.
You might think it a good indicator of strike but thats not really the case all the time as you pointed out.
Some high-grades show a blob there from a tiny bit of grease-filled die in that area.

I saw one where Lincoln was nearly invisible (`97 P) so I kept it anyway.
Seems now days we get really good detail strikes
but we,re sacrificing high-reliefs for lower relief and better detail?

Cam40

usually the best detail I can make out of Lincolns head would resemble a crash-test dummy.
Jus a slight raised area for a nose.

LAWMAN

Yes, Placid, like that one. MS only. Proofs are easy, most are FSL's.

lincolnSence

forget about the seated lincoln, I couldn't understand why no one cared about the VDB's being visiable on his shoulder when I first started collecting. People still don't. Go figure.

coppercoins

Part of whether the design on the reverse of a memorial Lincoln is complete rests on the condition of the die, another part rests on the condition of the hub when it made the die, yet another factor is the date of the coin (some simply don't come out complete at all, like 1980-1982), adn still yet another factor is strike. For some dates they are very common, for other dates they are seldom seen to rare.

If there would be any support for having a complete detail designator on the reverse of a memorial Lincoln (which I think is unneeded), it would more likely be the higher relief area of the steps, not the statue. The steps would come closer (like with Jeffersons) to noting a full strike rather than whether Lincoln's full figure is visible in the building, a very low relief area.

LAWMAN

Coppercoins: point well taken. There's lots more steps on the Lincoln Memorial than on the Monticello front porch, whether you count 5, 5 1/2, or 6. But, the fact that it is something of a fluke as to whether or not you get the full seated Lincoln even on a well-struck Reverse is what is intriguing-- why on some but not others? Other real copper experts have any opinions?

coppercoins

Most of it has to do with the fact that over the progression of the memorial reverse of the Lincoln cent there have been a number of re-engravings, essentially redesigning the reverse in miniscule ways each time. Some of them have a deeper, more pronounced statue and others don't. Die polishing can also affect the statue since it rests right on the field (albeit a slightly raised field) between the columns. There are so many factors to discuss in general, they tend to have little meaning unless we are speaking of specific dates from specific mints. 1968 cents cannot be compared to 1969 cents - both designs were changed and the details came out different for each of them. More obvious is the fact that the relief of the coins from the 60s is much different from the relief of the 90s to date. Many subjects, many factors to consider.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Would there be any support in the con collecting world for a modern Lincoln cent (1959 and on) with FSL-- Full Seated Lincoln? >>



Interesting Freudian slip, there!

LAWMAN

lordmarcovan: oooops! coppercoin: thanks for the info; I've been researching it, but I find varieties within the years too.

cladking

The bottom center of steps is typically the last thing to strike up on the memorials.
Finding some of these with the bottom line intact can be pretty tough.