AU58 vs. MS62

JoyofCollecting · July 23, 2003 12:01PM

Just an observation: Seldom have I every seen an MS62 that is more appealing to me than the same date/mm in AU58. Yet, the AU58 seems to always have a lower asking price. This has led me to always either buy the coins I pursue in either AU58 or MS63/64.

I can see the justification for paying more for the MS 63/64 ...but I'd rather have an AU58 than the 60/61/62's that are floating around.

Is this just me? Is this just the series I collect (seated dimes)?

Any other opinions?

LucyBop · July 23, 2003 12:02PM

MadMarty can speak rather authoratatively on au58 Frankies....

JoyofCollecting · July 23, 2003 12:05PM

I think Marty can also speak authoratively on seated dimes. Any thoughts from Marty on AU58 vs. MS62 seated dimes?

Placid · July 23, 2003 12:06PM

I had a ms62 in a old small pcgs slab, cracked it out and it came back 58. Sent it back and it came back a 62.

JxnBoy · July 23, 2003 12:06PM

I've heard more than one person say that the Sheldon scale should inlcude AU58-53 and MS58-63. I agree with your post. Especially in older series (I'm a huge SLQ fan), an AU58 can look better than many MS60, 61, 62, sometimes even 63's.

AU58 is usually a 63 with ever so slight rub. IMO, that's more eye appealing than a totally dinged up, bag marked, lustre challenged 61.

Give me AU58 any day of the week. Most bang for your buck.

David

airplanenut · July 23, 2003 12:06PM

Think about it... MS62 is numerically better than AU58- whether the registry or otherwise, most people want simply "the best." It's a horrible mentality, but it's the truth.

I agree with your observations, but until people care more for quality than numbers, MS will win... that means, more nice coins for us!

Jeremy

stujoe · July 23, 2003 12:09PM

I think an AU58 is often a better looking coin than a low grade mint state coin but it depends on the coin. After all, an otherwise MS65 coin with a little wear is an AU58 but so is an otherwise MS60 coin with a little wear.

mdwoods · July 23, 2003 12:15PM

I would certainly want to buy a well struck 1921 Peace Dollar in AU55-58 than most of the ones I've seen even up to gem grade.

Bustman · July 23, 2003 12:18PM

AU58 is a terrific grade. I use to own a 1796 quarter in a PCGS 58 holder, with great eye appeal and tone. That coin would probably stand up to any 64 or 65 in terms of eye appeal. I still wish I had not sold it.
On the other hand, I do own one or two real nice 62's. I find most of the nice 62's are for the most part, market graded 58s with the slightest of rub.

coinkat · July 23, 2003 12:18PM

I would rather have an AU58 that is truly original than an MS62 THAT has had the "treatment".

jonesy · July 23, 2003 12:34PM

AU58's are usually MS64's with a little rub.

Newkid · July 23, 2003 12:39PM

I cracked out a PCGS MS62 Green label 1921 Peace $ an sent it to NGC.
Got back an AU58!

airplanenut · July 23, 2003 12:41PM

<< <i>I think an AU58 is often a better looking coin than a low grade mint state coin but it depends on the coin. After all, an otherwise MS65 coin with a little wear is an AU58 but so is an otherwise MS60 coin with a little wear.

>>

AN MS60 with a rub is more like an AU50 or 53...

JoyofCollecting · July 23, 2003 1:11PM

Great....I think many of us agree that many 58's are just as appealing as many 62's. Yet, most everyone (98% of folks) ask significantly more for the 60-62's. Just look at many of the Heritage auctions....the 58's sell in the auction at a decent price and the ugly 61's and 62's wind up in the after-auction bargain bin for significantly more than the 58's. I'm not sure who buys the coins? Registry folks?

My greatest numismatic thrills these days are picking up beautiful, eye-appealling, slabbed 58's from dealers at shows not specializing in any of the seated series. They usually let them go at about the average of greysheet AU50 and MS60.

Are these great bargains? Probably not....from an economic standpoint. I don't think many of them would sell for much more than what you pay.

However, I believe they are great numismatic values for collectors.

MadMarty · July 23, 2003 1:16PM

Sorry can only speak for Frankies and one Roosie! But seated dimes are great in any grade!

stujoe · July 23, 2003 1:22PM

<< <i>AN MS60 with a rub is more like an AU50 or 53... >>

I don't typically take contact marks into account when grading circulated coins. I grade AU's by amount of wear and amount of luster left. Of course, I take contact marks into account when deciding how much to pay for them.

northcoin · July 23, 2003 5:33PM

I've seen a lot of XF coins creeping up into AU holders (usually AU50 or 55) as well as a lot of AU58's getting MS60 and 61 grades. The only thing I can conclude is that the strict rules for differentiating between XF, AU, and MS are no longer controlling and the grading services have in recent years started just grading coins on a one to ten type of continuum. Under the old rules though you are right, an AU58 is for all purposes other than marginal wear a far superior coin to a MS60-62 and thus a real bargain.

coiNuts · July 23, 2003 5:43PM

Baggy coins are MS60-62............the AU58/MS61/62 mess that we get into is the same that most graders get into....a nice original coin with a bit of wear on the high points is AU58...........ANY and I mean ANY Uncirculated coin, no matter how baggy, chunked, hit, banged etc. MUST have MS in front of the grade........so there is the problem................remember unless you are a PROFESIONAL coin dealer and it is your only job...........buy the coin you like, don't play the numbers games...........and keep this the KING OF HOBBIES..................thanks

SYRACUSIAN · July 23, 2003 6:29PM

Controversial grade. I've fallen into this trap many times when buying raw coins.I guess TPG services find it quite difficult too: look what happened to Placid and Newkid

291fifth · July 23, 2003 7:16PM

Judging from actual marketplace experience I would say that AU 58 is one of the most poorly defined grades at present. AU58 at one time was reserved for especially nice sliders. I now see coins graded AU58 that range from just that to coins with significant wear. More often than not the current coins graded AU58 are what were once called AU50 or even XF45.

Cam40 · July 23, 2003 7:16PM

Oh Dont yall know? When you buy the coin, its a 62, but when you sell it back to the dealer
it magically turns into a 58.

Yall didnt know that?

I,m surprised that the price stucture isnt the same for 58-62 anyway. But NO!!! We gotta split hairs on
every single point or perceptions of some point.
I,d like to see a price structure that says the price is the same for these grade ranges : AU 58- MS62
MS63-65, MS 66-68, and 69-70.
Like NUTU=Nearly Uncirculated to Uncirculated , UN= Uncirculated, CH UN= Choice Uncirculated, GU= Gem Uncirculated

Or something like that.

JoyofCollecting · July 23, 2003 8:50PM

Cam:

I think you're right and I think many of the collectors from yesteryear used that kind of grading continueum (sp?). I can understand how really wealthy collectors (I mean spending at least six figures a year on coins) trying to build the very best set would want to split hairs between say 66 and 68.

But as your average collector spending high four to low five figures a year on coins and building nice sets, it's difficult to justify the multiple premium for an MS65 over an MS63. I think this leaves many avid collectors then buying the EF45, AU58, and MS63 areas.

I'm of course talking about the more expensive dates/MM not the more common stuff.

So I guess the small population of really wealthy collectors are the market makers for all the rest of the investors and dealers that hold the really high-grade, expensive stuff?

I find it to be an interesting dynamic. Especially since many investors would have a difficult time distinguishing a MS65 from an MS66 or a MS63 from an AU58 for that matter.

dorkkarl · July 23, 2003 9:45PM

<< <i>AU58 seems to always have a lower asking price >>

that is probably because you are only looking at slabs, which encourage "generic pricing" so to speak. if you hang around collectors who ignore the slab & buy the coin, you will find that au-58, ie. a true "slider" frequently sells more than ms-60, 61 or even 62 or higher. the kind of collectors i'm referring to would be BHNC members, EACers, etc.

this is not to say that such collectors are "smarter" or anything like that. i am just observing that in my experience, i have often seen sliders sell for more than unc $. sometimes much more.

i think the real problem is that many coins w/ wea

K S

jdimmick · July 23, 2003 9:49PM

I too am very fond of Au-58 coins. And would much rather have a nice mark free 58 that just had the slightest rub, than a baggy or marginal Ms coin. Much better eye-appeal and coin for the money in most cases. Does depend on the series. Intresting question was brought up to David Hall the other evening about the Au-58 grade, whether PCGS would designate an Ms-61 coin that has a little rub as well as say an MS-64 coin with just the same amount of rub. He mentioned that the baggy coin may possibly be lowered to a 55 vs recieving the 58 grade.

Based on the coins I have seen in 58 holders, I would have to agree that PCGS does this, as a majority of the 58 coins are nicer, eye-appealing and are minimally marked.

In the past year or so, I have been seeing stronger prices being paid for the AU-58 grades. However, there are some series like the Morgan dollars, the premium to Ms-60 jumps because the coins that are technically uncirculated are not readily available and down right tough to locate. One date in the morgan series that comes to mind is the 1895-o. This coin is always availble in Au and even right up to a slider, but in true Ms, its extremely tough and very expensive. 9,000.00 in Ms-60.

This is a coin where the Au-58 price can be tough to call. Is an Au-58 1895-o worth close to the ms-60 price? I would say no, becuase there readily available, and the Ms-60 price reflects the true scarcity of a MS coin. On the other hand would you rather have a 9000.00 Ms-60 or a Nice eye-appealing Au-58 for say 1500-2000 maybe less?

Blade · July 23, 2003 10:14PM

A carefully selected AU58 is the best deal in numismatics. The comments above aren't absolute, especially in the gold series. There are some MS62's that look MS63+ and rarely is a gold AU58 a "wow" coin. For silver coins and classics, AU58 is a great value.

DHeath · July 23, 2003 10:30PM

Tom said it first, but I'll second. Gold doesn't look the same with discoloration in the fields. I don't like marks much, but AU coins don't always have full luster. Super-sliders are a wonderful thing if you can buy them as AU, but not all AU58s are created equal. It's too hard to generalize.

paigowjohnny · July 24, 2003 12:58AM

Tough one for me....I wouldn't mind buying a 58 if I knew it was a 58, and it was being sold for 58 money. I'm still recovering from the buying of sliders that I paid BU/60 money for.

And if you look and are choosy, 62's can be pretty good value as well, compared to the higher grades. I've got an NGC 62 Morgan on my desk here at work that is an absolutely beautiful coin...I think the only reason it got a 62 is because you can see some roller marks on the cheek if you take a loupe to the coin. Nicer to the naked eye than most of the 63s I have.

I'm really big on strike in my eye appeal grading

09sVDB · July 24, 2003 11:05AM

I personnally love the AU58 and MS64 grades.

lordmarcovan · July 24, 2003 11:11AM

I've had a nice experience with MS62. Some appealing coins can be had in that grade. Ditto for AU58, which is probably an even better "bargain" grade.

Some MS62 favorites I've had in the past were Seated coins: an 1884 dime (NGC), and an 1877 quarter with pretty nice luster (PCGS). Also a couple of $2.50 Libs. I've had those in PCGS 62 and have been pleased with their flashy luster and lack of marks. (I wouldn't have been able to distinguish a 62 from a 65 without a glass, and there's something to be said for that- a lot of a coin's eye appeal is in that "first glance".) An MS62 coin with MS64-65 eye appeal packs a lot of bang for the buck! And yes, they are out there!

AU58 vs. MS62

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