Photographing coins with real film

nwcs

Anyone do this? If so, what are some of the tips and tricks you have picked up along the way? I just experimented last night with photography by film and will drop off the film later for processesing. If you photo with film and digital, how would you compare the two results?

One thing I could tell from the viewfinder that I didn't get from the digital camera all the time was a truer color representation.

Neil

iras4

<< <i>Anyone do this? If so, what are some of the tips and tricks you have picked up along the way? I just experimented last night with photography by film and will drop off the film later for processesing. If you photo with film and digital, how would you compare the two results?

One thing I could tell from the viewfinder that I didn't get from the digital camera all the time was a truer color representation.

Neil >>



You're likely to be disappointed, Neil, even if your camera metered the correct exposure. When you look through the viewfinder you actually see the object your photographing.You can't judge the final result that way!

By the time the minilab's printing equipment takes an "average" reading from the color negative, the photo is not apt to look anything like the coin! Those machines are calibrated for the average flesh tone. I can get much better photos with digital photography if my white balance is set correctly, and I can adjust the color myself to match the actual coin if need be. Color slides will yield betetr results than color prints from film, I've found. Still, digital, properly implemented, is ideal for coin & currency photos.

Ira

nwcs

Interesting. With all the digital stuff I've done, I found that the colors are generally pretty close but just a little off now and then when the light intensity is sufficient. I used the same setup for the film as I do for digital so I though that might make a difference. Also used a white background to help with the balance. Will the pics just come back dull you think?

Rittenhouse

Yes, I've done A LOT of film photography. Unless you're doing very technical photography (hi mag, color plates, etc.), you're better off with digital, good daylight lights, & Photoshop for slight color correct. If you do film, even B&W, be prepared to set up your own darkroom. The commercial labs are set up for average photos and you ain't gonna get what you think.

I currently use digital except for extreme hi mag work, like shooting metal flow lines on the side of a letter. For moderately hi mag work, just get a good digital (I use a Fuji FinePix 3800) and a good set of macro lenses. You can do hi mag work with a digital, but you'll need a high end camera like the Nikon D1 series.

nwcs

Hmm, well I'll probably waste the $10 for processing then, but I gotta see what it looks like. I'm quite good with photoshop and digital now but I thought if I could master film then I'd get nuances that my digital doesn't pick up.

islemangu

Anyone do this?

I do, 35 mm, 2 main macro lens set up with Nikon F4 and old F3 bodies. As previous poster mentioned slide film best for then can braket exposures for later selecting the optimal but clumsy to get slide to print form therefore kind of forced to use regular print film at the moment. I have seen these neat scanners for sale that you can fit your 35 mm slide into which would be awesome....I think I:ll check ebay on these see if can find.
As previous poster mentioned, for the print film the processing lab will vary exposure level to what their most common settings are that usually does not jive with optimal coin shot which is almost always overexposed. With graphic programs just lower brightnest will bring it into optimal exposure while not touching contrast/color or any other bells and whistles on your graphics program for then it would turn into art instead of reality ...just my opioion

I have bought many coins that I also download the digital camera pic and then when receive coin shoot it with film. The trickiest are of course toned coins. Sometimes 35 mm film can capture them better and other times digital and I and cant explain why? Exception. Adrian



My ebay auctions

LanLord

I hope you used film intended for tungsten lighting (or used sunlight to light your coins) otherwise all your coins will have a golden hue to them.

nwcs

For this expeirment I used reveal bulbs. I'm now kinda curious to see what will happen. I'll tell the operators about what to expect. Maybe they can alter the settings before ruining the negative?

iras4

<< <i>For this expeirment I used reveal bulbs. I'm now kinda curious to see what will happen. I'll tell the operators about what to expect. Maybe they can alter the settings before ruining the negative? >>



They won't ruin the negative..it's already been developed. They could ruin the print...I've generally gotten photos back showing the coin too dark. I always use an 18% neutral gray card as a background. If exposure of printer is set to correctly print the gray card, then the color of the coin will generally be accurate and correctly exposed in the print. a pack of two cards is generally available at most photo shops (not photo depts. of K-Marts and the like)

Reveal bulbs are still tungsten bulbs, not daylight.They are designed to give more flattering flesh tones, shouldn't be used for coin photography where color may be critical. Color negative film is balanced for daylight, so I expect your photos will have a salmon-colored cast to them.

You need a blue filter over the lens to afford better correction with color neg. film. I forget the color, maybe an 80A? Of course, this filter will reduce about 80% of the light reaching the film, but camera's metering system should correct for this.

Ira

LanLord

I think the 80a filter is too blue, but iras4 is certainly correct in his recommendation, a blue filter is necessary. I too can no longer remember which one however. Otherwise, there is film which is tungsten color corrected or possibly telling the developer that it was exposed in tungsten, they will alter the chemistry during development and it will come out correct.

nwcs

Thanks for the help, guys! I guess this will be a necessary learning experience.

oldcameoproofsguy

I shoot tons of slide film. I use a Canon EOS 1V and a EOS 1NRS with Canon 28-70 2.8 L and 100-400 4.5-5.6 IS L lenses. I don't use any of it for shooting coins. The expense is too great. I would get maybe one good shot per roll. It costs $5.00 for Fuji Provia 100F film, $6.50 for E-6 processing and $5.00 to scan a .bmp quality image onto CD. Granted the image would be exceptional, $16.50 is too much to justify for shooting one coin.

I purchased a relatively cheap Sony Mavica FD-75 digital for shooting coins. It has really great macro capabilities and is perfectly suited for what I do here on the internet.

iras4

<< <i>I think the 80a filter is too blue, but iras4 is certainly correct in his recommendation, a blue filter is necessary. I too can no longer remember which one however. Otherwise, there is film which is tungsten color corrected or possibly telling the developer that it was exposed in tungsten, they will alter the chemistry during development and it will come out correct. >>



The correction is not done during development of the negative, and in any case the labs won't alter the chemistry during development, as that would spoil several large tanks of chemicals and dozens of rolls are spliced together so that many are developed in tandem.

They can be somewhat color corrected in the printing process, howver IF they will flag the roll and the operator is paying attention, both scenarios highly unlikely in a minilab.

I believe the filter to use IS an 80A or 80B. I just can't find the one I used to use, it's been so many years since I started with digital. The camera store would know if using film for this project is to be continued. The film makers used to make tungsten bal. film, but I'm not sure they still do except, pehaps, for sheet film meant for mostly studio use.

Ira

BS Photographic Science - RIT '63
Now a full time coin dealer..who'da thought?

SDCollector

Another option is get your film processed and scanned to CD with no prints. I do this all the time, although I haven't tried it with coin photography. Many mini labs offer this "no prints" option. It costs around $10 total.

That way you have the best of both worlds, high definition film quality on a digital image. You can then do minor color correction on your digital image. I use labs that have Fuji Frontier systems. They're state-of-the-art digital systems and located everywhere, including most Wal-marts. There's no potential for operator error, everything is automated. Check out Photo.net if you want more info. It's a great photography site.

Digital photography may be a more cost effective option, but you still can't beat the quality of film...at least for the next year or so.

robertpr

They still manufacture regular film?

nwcs

Well, I went with the option for them to produce a CD instead of prints. They'll be ready Saturday. I wonder how it'll look?

SDCollector

<< <i>Well, I went with the option for them to produce a CD instead of prints. >>



Good decision. The best benefit of this approach is that they (the lab) will scan the negative in a dust-free enviroment. Dust is the enemy when it comes to scanning. Also the processor will do most of the color correction and balance automatically. This can be good or bad...just depends on your image. But you can always correct it later with your graphics program. BTW I recommend Paint Shop Pro. For less than $100, it's the best IMO.

If you want more details PM me. Again, I do this all the time for family pictures, but unfortunately no coin pics yet.

JT

Hi Neil,

I just read your post concerning coin photography. I've done an awful lot, and a lot of my photos are in dozens of books.

Several years ago I produced a 4 page monograph on Coin Photography Made Simple. The 4 pages are literally packed with text.

If you (or anyone) would like a free copy, just send me a 37 cent stamp, not an envelope. I have an envelope that fits the paper perfectly. It will give you a lot of tips.

You can also read the text of the monograph online at www.numismedia.com. I previously had it on my own site, but have since sold that business. I will have it soon at www.cherrypickersguide.com. I have given talk and presentations at several ANA conventions and at the ANA Summer Seminar based on this monograph.

If I can ever give you any specific tips or other help, just send me an e-mail at jtstanton@aol.com. I'll be glad to help.

Best wishes,

JT Stanton

nwcs

SDCollector, I'm an old pro with Photoshop. I remember playing with version 1.0 of it. But I haven't updated since 6.

CoinResource

Gray cards can help with evening out the print exposure, but if you fill the frame with a coin and/or reflect light directly off the coin, the printer will still have grief getting a good print. The photo printers tend to make shiny white coins dull to even out the exposure. With lighting tests and a custom darkroom, I could easily accomodate, but hey, I've gone digital... -cr

PS - I do miss my old darkroom though!

291fifth

No matter how hard you try it will be difficult to get good prints of coins from your local photo processor. If you have a lab in your area that the professionals use you might try that but it will be expensive. You may also chack with your local community college to see if they have a basic color course that allows you to use color enlargers. (This is how I do my own.) Unfortunately, there are relatively few of these programs around.

JT

For those having problems with the quick, one-hour type of photo finishers, I might suggest trying to develop a relationship with one. That may be easier said than done, and maybe I was lucky.

I've been using the same finisher for about 15 years. Yes, they do the typical quick photo processing. BUT, they know when I bring in my film just what they need to do. They tell me its very simple. Before they print the film, they simply make an adjustment for each of the 3 colors, cyan, magenta and yellow. Black stays the same. But after they got it right, they have these adjustments posted, and anyone printing my film can enter those adjustment and the colors are right. Once in a while one or two negs will need to be reprinted.

They do not charge me extra. In fact, they give me a 20% discount. But I also spend a lot of money each year with them. A small year for me with them would be about 500 rolls.

But just scout around and try to find a finisher you feel might work with you. It doesn't take much effort on their part initially, and virtually none after they get it right the first time.

If anyone has any questions along these lines, I'll be glad to offer any help I can. I'm at jtstanton@aol.com.

Best wishes,

JT

MadMonk

I'm very familiar with JT's photography article. It is a must read!