On ebay - Finest known 3 Cent - 1887/6 PR67 Cam PCGS

Cameo CC · July 16, 2003 12:44AM

Finest known 3 Cent - 1887/6 PR67 Cam PCGS - now on ebay. This is a really clean coin with life.

I this this is what is refered as Prime real-estate.

Here is the link: 1887/6 PR67 Cam PCGS

Todd

scher · July 16, 2003 1:41AM

This coin is nothing short of a rip off at the starting price of only $28,500...absolutely stunning 67's go for 2k to 3k..what a joke.
Bruce Scher

Cameo CC · July 16, 2003 1:56AM

scher - Sorry you feel this way. If the prices in Non Cameo is the way you say - what should the price be in Cameo?

I will buy all of the 1887/6 PR67 Cam PCGS you can get for $5,000.00 - Please let me know when you have them.

Unfortunately this is the finest known coin and there are none in higher grade.

Todd

scher · July 16, 2003 2:19AM

cameo..you feel that buying the coin for 5k is worth 28.5k astarting bid...anyone that is in the 3 cent arena knows the price is absurd..hard to find in cameo..but not 28.5k asking hard...as an example there are only 1 or 2 1865 and 1877 (key date for the series) in 67cameo aand 66 deep cameo all 4 of these coins purchased within the last year or so at just above or just below 10k...triple the price for an easier date doesnt seem correct..heck i have several of the only proof 68 dates and paid around 10k each for them...the pricing on this coin is nuts..i love to see these go up in value..but $28,500 is robbery and then some...get real
Bruce Scher

wondercoin · July 16, 2003 2:25AM

Todd: Do you really want to know what that coin is worth? Easy - put me in a room with Bruce S. with an opening bid of $7500 and $500 increments and I promise you honest bidding on the coin on my part. Your coin will sell for the "right" price to be sure

Wondercoin

Cameo CC · July 16, 2003 2:27AM

It has been a long week. Please accept my apologies. You have fogotten more about the 3 Cent pieces than I know.

This is a client's coin and after talking with him we came to this price. What should the price be?

Todd

scher · July 16, 2003 2:53AM

sorry if i offended in any way..i understand your point cameo..i think mitch (wwondercoin) is in line though in my opinion this coin would bring 5k to 10 or 12k at auction and mitch somehow guess's my interest as well i would pay $7500 and make the start of his auction but would probably not push up much more than that...
Bruce Scher

wondercoin · July 16, 2003 3:23AM

Bruce: Not sure how many bids I would be good for either, but, I suspect the coin would sell and would sell at "fmv" with you in the bidding process

Wondercoin

Cameo CC · July 16, 2003 4:17AM

I have to run the auction at this price but after it comes down will relay your thoughts to the client and see what they want to do.

Thanks for the input.

Todd

sonofagunk · July 16, 2003 4:53AM

Darn, this started out to look like a good fight and then cool heads prevailed

cosmicdebris · July 16, 2003 5:13AM

One other thing I would do when you relist.
(just a suggestion now)

When I look at auction pictures I want to see the coin not the slab. See my signature picture, this is what I would want to see.

Another example look at the pictures in the following 2 auctions links and then look at the final hammer prices.
Both coins are the same year date and type and sold within a day of each other.

AUCTION 1
AUCTION 2

dpoole · July 16, 2003 6:39AM

I came to this discussion late.

I've dealt with CameoCC and Todd before, and know them to be honorable. I also know that most of their stuff is moderns, and (as far as I know) haven't dealt with 3CNs much.

That being said, I had the same reaction as the rest. I happily clicked Todd's link (BTW, Mitch, I'd like to be in that room too!), and then injured my knee with my jaw when I saw the price.

"No harm in asking," I suppose, but I'm with Mark on this one. I'd expect a dealer I was consigning to, to give me some guidance and advice about what a coin was worth, and if the dealer didn't know because it's a less-familiar series, to call/ask around a bit and do some research. I wouldn't expect the consigner to let me just pull a price out of the wishing well. It creates mistrust in the dealer, when the estimate is so thunderously far off, as this one clearly is.

This is a low pop coin, but the series is loaded with low-pop dates in CAM. It's not even DCAM, where you might expect the more energized prices and "crazy money" to be drawn because the coi is so darn great-looking. 3CNs are moving up some, but I sure would have presumed this one would go for between $5k-$10k like others here are estimating.

wondercoin · July 16, 2003 6:45AM

Well, there you have it - myself, Bruce and David in a room and this coin will likely achieve whatever it should achieve.

In addressing David's remark - I try to always bring in specialized talent to assist in the specialized areas I have less experience in. I have no problem splitting a commish in half and bringing in "the resident expert" in the field to assist a customer. It is a "win-win" for all involved.

Todd - probably better to speed it up and move this coin out BEFORE it becomes pop 2, or is surpassed by a DCAM coin being graded

Wondercoin

TWQG · July 16, 2003 9:31AM

<< <i>if current or potential clients think or know that the seller's prices are out of line. >>

Too late!
This seller is already known for their ridiculous prices.

redcents · July 17, 2003 2:38AM

Would be an ideal world (for buyers at least) if ALL auctions started at 1 cent with no reserve. That would ensure it gets sold at real market value (unless it's a heavily damaged Poor1 1/2 cent not worth a "redcent").

oreville · July 18, 2003 3:48PM

Todd: We have pm'd before. Thanks again for your generosity.

My suggestion to you in the future is to list such a coin with a starting price of $1 and establisihing a high reserve so that you can get an idea of the market on these coins. Then once you (and your client)are satisfied as the market price then you can relist and sell it at the truer price.

The 3 cent nickels even in the rarified condition shown could indeed be easily eclipsed by a DCAM which is the true monster of the series. But this series has not shown the intense demand of the moderns and is only NOW beginning to warm up after a 15 year deep sleep!

I must commend all of the other posters here for giving you what I consider to be very sound advice.

Cameo CC · July 18, 2003 9:05PM

All of the above comments are good and I thank you for them. I have learned much from them and will incorporate your comments into future coins like this.

Unfortunately, I have to leave the coin up (until it ends) for that is the agreement I made with the client.

Todd

cosmicdebris · July 18, 2003 9:18PM

Todd it may also help to show your client this thread.

docday2003 · July 18, 2003 10:48PM

Very interesting thread. Thanks to all who posted. I have learned alot about the intricacies of selling rarities.

sinin1 · July 21, 2003 6:49AM

I DO not know the market for 3 cent pieces but disagree with some of the previous posts -

prices move with bids and asks - sometimes the prices move up and sometimes they move down

if someone offers something for 28K (asks), and the best offer (bid) is 8K then no sale occurs

of course the bidders want to get the item at as low of value as they possibly can, and the seller wants to get as much as possible

In this case, they bid / ask spread is 20K big deal - the seller doesn't want to sell that bad (overmarket ask?) and/or the buyer doesn't want buy that bid (undermarket bid?)

If a buyer wants to buy, they should know something about the market shouldn't they? Are you telling me if a real estate agent lists a 300K house for 600K and someone buys it, the seller and agent are ripping off the buyer?

I feel the seller is not that motivated in this case and taking a flyer with a top pop coin - when they get more motivated, they will go to a big show sale with no reserve.

So how does someone put a value on a 1913 Liberty nickel?

dpoole · July 21, 2003 7:40AM

NOTE: because someone has a pop.s 1 coin does NOT give them the right to determine the coin is worth what they say. This has been my biggest complaint about the chatrooms and the registry.

No "experts" here are "determining" what the coin is worth. As sinin1 and others point out, it's "worth" whatever anybody will pay.

That's a lot different than people who are actively buying and selling certain series commenting about what market has been for such items. And in the 3CN proof series, there are lots of low-pop condition rarity years for CAM/DCAM and grade, making marketing comparisons pretty easy. For example, a company that does deal with 3CNs is shipping me a pop 2 condition rarity for $4500 to look over, which may be a fair price if the coin is solid for the grade/designation, as compared with what I know 3CN proofs have been selling for.

Yeah, if the guy told Todd "Look, I don't care if it sells. Just mark it way up there. Maybe we'll get lucky and somebody who's nuts and rich will click on it. No harm in trying," that's one thing. Todd mighta shrugged and said OK. But in that case, why give it to Todd to put on Ebay? Put it on Ebay yourself.

But if the guy called up and asked help in selling the coin, then I'm presuming that he was asking for some guidance and expertise, and is a motivated seller. In that case, the dealer should offer expertise and counsel about marketing for the fee charged, and give the seller his/her best professional judgement about how to market it and what price to set. Like real estate, to do that, you get "comparables," which DO exist in this series.

I'm saying this in general. I have no idea what transpired between this seller and CameoCC. And like I said, my dealings with CameoCC have always been great. But Todd's post here did sound as though he may not have done his homework about pricing this coin.

Typetone · July 22, 2003 12:05AM

Guys:

This is another thread where there is a lot more intrigue going on underneath the surface than meets the eye. Perhaps the point of the sellers "auction" was simply to gather information and a response about the low pop 3 CN market, which seems to be what happened.

Greg

dpoole · July 22, 2003 4:51AM

Good point, Greg!

scher · July 24, 2003 2:41AM

interesting subject..on the us coin forum a new thread about determining the price of "pop1" coins already haas 50 replies..and legend refers to the example in this forum..hot topic for sure..
bruce scher

dpoole · July 24, 2003 6:25AM

Todd wrote to tell me he got back with his client with all this info, and that they're going to consign the coin to the September Signature auction. Will be interesting to see what the coin will bring there.

I think that for a coin such as this, a major auction is the best venue to maximize, and to assess what the coin is "worth."

sinin1 · July 24, 2003 8:35AM

Interesting - will probably maximize sale value there if not sold here on eBay-

I remember saying somewhere that the seller has the final say in what they get - was chatised by many saying the buyer sets the market - that may be so in a declining market but when the market goes up - it becomes a sellers market

Do you think they will bid it up to a certain comfortable level or sell with no reserve?

Another interesting thread in the US Coins forum is LauraLegend saying how they just got a very nice trade dollar set - after negotiations since September (9 months?) they (the buyers) finally agreed with the seller in his price which was between 50% and 150% higher than any listed or published price

I guess when some coins are so good - any published price has no reference or meaning to their sale (and when you buy a top pop that much higher than listed prices, you need to get as much publicity as possible so the price guides can be corrected)

I still am not sure how that is any different than this thread unless maybe Trade Dollars have more clout than 3 cent pieces

sinin1 · July 24, 2003 8:52AM

if the market keeps going in present direction - that coin could be sold for 1.8 million in 3 years

dpoole · July 24, 2003 8:56AM

(THE COIN IS ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR SALE).

Rats. PM rescinded.

geb209 · July 24, 2003 12:18PM

Todd, Id like to give you a little constructive criticism. That scanner doesnt do that coin justice. In fact, that scanner wouldnt do any coin justice. The picture just turns me off completely.

Ill bet the coin is 2x better than it looks.

scher · September 15, 2003 2:53AM

update...this coin went at auction today for $8500 hammer price..20k less than advertised on this somewhat controversial thread and pretty close to our guess's of what the coin would be worth..
bruce scher

wondercoin · September 15, 2003 3:08AM

Yep, I had suggested setting the opening bid at $7500 and allowing a few of us from the boards to bid for the coin

Frankly, IMHO, the owner would have done better doing exactly that GREAT PICK UP BRUCE!

Wondercoin

On ebay - Finest known 3 Cent - 1887/6 PR67 Cam PCGS

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