Anyone see David Hall's INSIDE VIEW?
DAM
Posts: 2,410 ✭✭
I received a copy a couple of days ago. I am amazed at the prices listed for some of the coins. For example, a 1916 Lincoln Cent MS67RD for $5000. I know prices have gone up, but that's a ton for that coin.
If someone want's one for $5000 PM me. I've got a very nice one in that grade.
If someone want's one for $5000 PM me. I've got a very nice one in that grade.
Dan
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Comments
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Greg
maybe his prices are a little inflated?
warrented a sell recommendation. You'd think that he
sells coins or something............
If you track DHRC price lists, you know that they are the price leader for all PCGS coins.
That's one way to promote PCGS coins
I've always noticed they usually ask more for their coins. But with prices like that it makes me wonder how often they sell one?
To each his own is guess.
Trying to trade on their "good name" but to an extremely unrealistic degree for the most part. For my limited area of knowledge & expertise here are 7 ridiculously overpriced "stale" Lincoln Memorial items DHRC has been trying to sell for quite a while:
1962 69DCAM 1968-S 69DCAM 1969-S 69DCAM 1970-S LD 68DCAM 1970-S LD 69DCAM
1975-D MS67RD 1982 MS66RD
I wager to say they would not even pay 1/2 (i.e. 100% markup) to 1/3 (i.e. 50% markup) of those prices - The coin market will never reach it's full potential until the big players - AT LEAST - list the prices they are willing & ready to pay sight unseen for the same coins they are selling. ESPECIALLY CU as they HAVE to publicly exhibit FULL CONFIDENCE in the accuracy of the grade of a sight-unseen PCGS slab.
Of course, I hope I'm wrong as to my opinion of their values as I own them all
But of course , now, he is one of the biggest promoters of these same coins! What a capitalist, all he cares about is $$$$$!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Prices aside for a moment, of course, many of the series they discuss as being "hot" are just that IMHO as well.
Wondercoin
Speaking of fish, I've got my box of Mercs and it's off to Canada in a couple of hours for a weekend of cooler temps and hopefully some fresh fish dinners.
Hmmm.... still no PMs for my 1916 MS67RD Lincoln for $5000 either. Maybe by the time I get back on Sunday.
They put high prices on their coins.
People see the prices and think they can get that for their coins so they have them PCSG slabbed.
PCGS makes more money on slabbing
DavidHall's stock (all 8.6 Million shares) go up in value (Just shy of $30 Million)
So I really do not think he cares if he EVER sells another coin.
-sog
Having said that...the example that started this thread is actually not too far out of line when you compare it to the other examples. Which means another PM coming your way DAM!
RELLA
who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
twenty times.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
> DavidHall's stock (all 8.6 Million shares) go up in value (Just shy of $30 Million)
This can't be true. According to Yahoo, CLCT only has 6,130,000 shares outstanding and David's holding can't be 100%. If Yahoo info is correct, HRH is the only listed insider and he owns 20% of CLCT stock. As of 2002-12-31, report showed he owned 1,715,100 shares of Collectors Universe, Inc.
As DHRC has pointed out in point blank terms - eBay is their "loss leader". You also see "good" prices because the market is deciding the prices not someone in an ivory tower. I too have bought several items from them through eBay that I felt were good buys - and the quality was as described with NO PROBLEMS.
HALL, DAVID G.: Declared Holdings
Collectors Universe Inc, Officer
NasdaqNM:CLCT 2002-12-31 1,715,100 Direct
Collectors Universe Inc, Director
NasdaqNM:CLCT 2002-09-10 6,880,000 Direct
Did they do a reverse split since this?
Link
he HAD 6.8 million, then a 1:4 split, gives him the 1.7 million.
so he holds 1.7 million at the current value.
Sorry for the mis info
Hey, in all fairness,it does really cut both ways on that. DHRC had a 1949(d) BTW in PCGS-MS67 on their site FOR MONTHS at something like $6000. It showed up in the last Heritage sale and commanded close to $11,000 with buyers fee!
Wondercoin
<< <i>Hall is a bit of a schmoe if you haven't figured that out yet. His INSIDE VIEW's from a few years back always preached:,"modern coins are all junk....sell them all!".
But of course , now, he is one of the biggest promoters of these same coins! What a capitalist, all he cares about is $$$$$! >>
I remember his comments on moderns from years back. Pulls a 180 and is now the modern promoter.
His INSIDE VIEW's are pure trash. He should have called it "David Hall's Wrong and Biased View's". He couldn't predict a correct market trend if his life was on the line. The fact that he keeps saying how hot the market is should worry people. A crash is coming.
..The market changes,therefore so does views/opinions.Al
<< <i>
<< <i>Hall is a bit of a schmoe if you haven't figured that out yet. His INSIDE VIEW's from a few years back always preached:,"modern coins are all junk....sell them all!".
But of course , now, he is one of the biggest promoters of these same coins! What a capitalist, all he cares about is $$$$$! >>
I remember his comments on moderns from years back. Pulls a 180 and is now the modern promoter.
. >>
In 1971 I was the worlds greatest modern basher. There were few people who cared more about the
coins in circulation and perhaps no one who hated clad more. Sure even then I found the lessons the
coins could teach to be of interest, but they were of relatively little utility since the coins would sit in
goverment vaults for years and then get mixed with coins that showed much more wear. The cheap
clad composition seemed at the time to be a way to steal the silver from the American people and the
new coins were usually horrendous in appearance. They were all made in the hundreds of millions and
while it was obvious not many were being saved, there was still no point in it since there were billions
sitting in government vaults which did not circulate. One could still love them and form collections, but
no known varieties which were possible to obtain at that time and no real chance of any appreciation,
there was no real point in it and it was far too easy a task anyway. There were millions of mint sets
produced, despite the fact that virtually no one collected the coins. There seemed no chance that the num-
bers of these sets could ever fall much with their high prices and near total lack of interest in them.
Yes, I guess I actually hated these coins. In addition to the crap in circulation they had also displaced
the neat coins that used to be there. What was there to like.
Well... ...times change. Nothing remains static. Time and tide advance whether one is paying attention
or not.
In 1972 the government announced they were going to rotate their stocks of coins. This made it obvious
that eventually nicer coin would become rare if people ignored them. As the years went by the coins cir-
culating had more and more stories to tell of more and more relevance. As one watched these coins for
the next story it was difficult not to find that there were varieties circulating right along with all the more
common coins. Mintages fluctuated over the years and the only thing that remained constant was that
each passing year meant that the coins got thinner and more banged up.
Perhaps it wasn't Mr. Hall who changed so much as it was the calender.
<< <i>This is a narrow minded statemeny,in my opinion>>> Hall is a bit of a schmoe if you haven't figured that out yet. His INSIDE VIEW's from a few years back always preached:,"modern coins are all junk....sell them all!".
..The market changes,therefore so does views/opinions.Al >>
Rather easy to let the guy off the hook. Replace modern coin with internet stocks. So ready to let the internet stock peddlers off the hook?
There is nothing wrong with what David Hall has done. Making money is the goal. You just lack credibility when you do a 180 so frequently and your predictions are wrong most of the time.
<< <i>
Rather easy to let the guy off the hook. Replace modern coin with internet stocks. So ready to let the internet stock peddlers off the hook?
There is nothing wrong with what David Hall has done. Making money is the goal. You just lack credibility when you do a 180 so frequently and your predictions are wrong most of the time. >>
People don't need to have their arms twisted to lose vast sums of wealth
in the current craze. They climb over one another and will step on anyone
to be the first in line to buy whatever is hot. It is the greed of the buyers
that inevitably destroys. The sellers are often just providing a service or a
product that the market demands.
Modern coins are likely going far higher than where they are at whether they
become the next beanie baby or not. They are still available for tiny percent-
ages of comparably rare classics. You'll know the market has peaked when
almost everyone is singing their praises, but even then they won't crash unless
greed has been a major motivating factor for many of the purchasers.
Next time you want to know the reasons for a panic, a bubble, or a crash just
look at the people around you, look in the mirror and then ask yourself if it might
have been predicted.
Back around 1989-1990 I was attending a coin show in Milwaukee where Mr. Hall, Dave Bowers, Paul Martin,etc. were giving a little side show/seminar for show attendees. The coin market was spinning downward at an alarming rate at the time. The mood on the bourse floor was one of disbelief and bewilderment. Most of the major dealers at the show looked like they were in shock.
When Hall's turn came to be the speaker he fielded some questions from the audience. One of the questions from the audience concerned fluctuating grading standards. Hall stood up there in front of everybody and repeatedly INSISTED that grading standards do NOT change. Of course, that is a ridiculous statement, as anyone who has been seriously involved with coins will attest to the fact that gradeflation is a very REAL problem! {can you say 1804 dollar?} I immediately jumped up from my seat and said, "How can you stand there and say that standards do not change? You know very well that standards DO fluctuate. In fact, I have at my home a letter from you, signed by you, in which you state to me that the reason many of the coins I had bought raw from DHRC (or whatever his retail operation was called at that time- David Hall's Numismatic Investment Group?) did not receive an MS65 grade when subsequently submitted to PCGS was that, in your own words, "grading standards have changed."?
You should have seen the look on his face! I don't remember what inane reply he gave (I was too incensed at his blatant lying to even bother listening to his reply) but he certainly looked stupid up there eating crow!
'OK'..., you say, ...'that still doesn't exactly make him a schmoe'.
But wait, I have another war story:
If you have been a long time reader of INSIDE REVIEW, you may remember an issue back in the 1980's wherein Hall decided that World coins were the great investment of the future. He not only recommended buying gem world coins, he even generously suggested that if you wanted to get in on the ground floor of the coming boom market in World coins, he had just the dealer for you: Sue McCarty (mcCarthy?) of World Coin Market Investors (WCMI), Maitland, Florida. According to Hall, Maitland was THE source for quality foreign coins, and was agood and trusted friend of his.
Being young and gullible and not yet savvy to the fact that Hall's "investment advice" was usually unsound, I quickly bought a half a dozen coins from WCMI and waited for the coming explosion in the world coin market. And waited. And waited. After a few years it became apparent that lo and behold, Hall's prediction was simply not going to come to fruition. Gem quality world coins were far more common than previously thought.
Some years later, I sent the Netherlands 1897 10 guilden gold coin I had purchased from to NGC for certification. It was returned to me in a body-bag, COUNTERFEIT! By that time WCMI had seemingly dissappeared from the numismatic scene (surprise! surprise!). I then sent two separate letters to David Hall inquiring as to whether he might know the whereabouts of Sue McCarty. I wanted to give her the opportunity to make good on the counterfeit gold she had sold me.
Care to guess what Hall's response was?? Zilch! He was apparently so busy wiping egg off of his face that he couldn't find the time to respond to my query.
Now if that doesn't qualify David Hall as a schmoe, then I must be a schmuck!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Waldo: I am just curious what you think the price guide should reflect for that coin you won in MS67 without FB? Should the guide show:
1. $184.50 (but, what if you max bid was really $400?)
2. $1000 (but, we both know that is likely wrong)
3. $100?
4. $500?
If you were editor of the price guide, what would your number be?
Now, complicate things further if you are the Coin World price editor -there they are looking at PCGS and NGC coins (and perhaps ANACS or ICG)! What if an NGC-MS67 trades at $75 one day and a PCGS at $250 the next, or vice-versa? Then, what if an ANACS trades at $50, but a PCGS coin which someone figures has FB trades at $400 the next? Is a Price Guide even viable for most post 1932 coins in extraordinary grades? Think about it
I'm just saying the price in the guide should be an average of recent selling prices. BTW, my max bid was $200.
<< <i>Waldo . . . . . How much for the bong? >>
Well, at least you know why I appear confused at times....
I think you were able to get the 55-d cheaply because with the advent of the FB designation for Roosevelt dimes, there is currently very little demand for the non-FB examples. The same thing happened to Franklins when they began using the FBL moniker. Now you practically have to give away non-FBL franks.
I see DHRC on ebay also recently sold an MS67 1964-d roosie for $68! (no bands, of course).
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Hall is a bit of a schmoe if you haven't figured that out yet. His INSIDE VIEW's from a few years back always preached:,"modern coins are all junk....sell them all!".
But of course , now, he is one of the biggest promoters of these same coins! What a capitalist, all he cares about is $$$$$! >>
A SCMOE ?? Thats being to kind...............let me share a couple of my D.H. nightmares..............
from the decade of the 80`s............... it took like 3 months to get them back, every day like Christmas morning, wondering what Gifts i would be recieving......i was hoping and dreaming my coins would grade high !
every one came back in a MS64 holder !! i was crushed beond chomprehension......................i lost faith in myself and coin collecting in general. If the best of my best in 10 years of searching was only 64 quality - the party was over. I sold off what i had left of my raw franklins and dumped the 64`s for what i could get. And i sent a cute pix to Hall pErsonALLY -A man bent over holding his ankles, with no clothes on ; with another man very close behind him.....with a big smile on his face..............!
Then , years later, people telling me that more then a few of those "64`s" made it into 66 holders !!!!!!!
How about the fall of 1992 or was it `93 ? anyway ,you can check for yourself as it`s all there in past ' INSIDE VIEWS" ............ D.H . sounded the alarm .......the stock market was poised for a collapse , a tremendous crash .. the DOW was nearing 5000 ...........get out now while you still could !! Get into rare coins.............and buy the way he said .....clad coins were junk-too common to ever be worth anything................
So i dumped my meager holdings of stock...........................
what followed was the greatest raging boom bull market in the history of the world !!!!!!!!!!!
I love D.H.; but he`s a quack....................and you can make ton`s of money from his INSIDE VIEW ; just do the complete opposite of what he sez !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We always hurt the ones we love..............
btw- I see a 1951-s roosie sold at teletrade for $15 !!!! earlier this month!!!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
O slithery one, return to the depths of the earth ,from whence you emerged.
Camelot
BUSHMASTER AR-15:
Camelot
actually you are both correct--I am a big fan of both the superb rifle AND the worlds largest pit viper.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Hey Bare - what do you do ; beat up on anyone you don`t agree with ? Maybe D.H. should kick your chubby troll butt off the boards !?
Seems to be his MO. I'm surprised he doesn't have an icon where he is giving the other forum members the finger.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website