What is it about the photos that would prompt you to state that they are fake?
The Wreath Cent has smooth, uncorroded surfaces but the Chain Cent appears to have been recolored and likely has some corrosion. Both ARE genuine, however. The photos are so blurry that it's impossible to determine whether the surfaces have been "improved" in any way, so some caution is advised.
It always amazes me that sellers would expect you to part with thousands of daollars and yet provide such awful photos!
For the Chain, the A in AMERI looks to narrow. It is also veru blurry where the word COPY may have been removed. With the Wreath, It looks bad to me. The beading in uneven is bead size compared to a genuine S-6, this coin is also blurry were the word copy may have been. The wear on the chain does not look right either. The lettering on the reverse looks more worn than the chain. The chain part of the chain cent is struck up better on real chains. Also read the discription, why would anyone who thought some thing might be valuable put it on ebay and let fate decide. They have 4 feedbacks since 2001, two from un registered users. The bidders name is protected. It all smells funny to me.
I just do not trust the auction. Is there a money back gaurentee?
Paluka, my advice would be to stay away form higher priced/expensive uncertified coins. If you purchase any, it's a near certainty, that you will be badly burned.
thebigeng is correct in stating that these "coins" are FAKE. Avoid at all cost.
The big giveaway on the Chain Cent is the obverse die. The Ameri. (S1) variety is only married to one obverse die. In this case, the layout is wrong on the obverse die, particularly in the spacing of the date. On S1 Chain Cents, the date is the first thing to go, as the date is weakly struck on all S1 examples. Considering that this replica has VG-8 wear, the date should be weak, but instead it is the strongest feature. I am certain that this is an electrotype or modern cast copy that has received simulated wear. There are a few other problems that I see.
Regarding the Wreath Cent, it is also a copy. I can't tell from the photos, but it may be a cast or electrotype as well. The obverse is somewhat convincing, but the reverse is completely wrong. The leaves on the obverse are wrong and the reverse is an unknown die (???). My guess is that a genuine Wreath was used to make the dies, but the dies were reworked for detail enhancements. Those die changes coupled with the washout effect of cast copies results in coins that look like the images provided. Add in some accelerated, simulated wear and you have copies that could be convincing if you are a beginning collector. To me, these factors result in a stack-up of errors that helps to identify these as fakes.
We have similar coins offered to us on a regular basis. Some copies are better than others. Perhaps it is not fair of us to evaluate these coins from the scans, but I am confident in my opinion. Having the coins in hand would be very beneficial. On convincing counterfeits (die transfer, struck copies) I like to weigh and measure the coins and put them under a 30X scope.
I would have to agree with Jadecoin, both fakes. The chain has he reverse of S-1 (Ameri) and the obverse of S-3 (from the stye and positioning of the date.) The wreath is a little more convincing. It is obviously supposed to be S-6 (only obverse with the leaves above the date positioned like that, long stem pointing at 7, center leaf points srtrongly right.). The reverse is also a good copy of S-6. (I don't think the leaves are as far off as Jadecoin seems to, but the poor scan could account for that.) The key that nailed it for me was the beads above OF A. On the genuine coin these beads are all evenly spaced, of equal size, and all on a smooth arc. On this coin they are of odd spacing, different sizes, and there is a definite rise above the F, and a dip between the F and A.
Paluka, my advice would be to stay away form higher priced/expensive uncertified coins. If you purchase any, it's a near certainty, that you will be badly burned.
Ed, since you've been such a gentleman lately, I have provided links, below. By the way, I do give the seller credit for at least adding to his listings, the fact that he has been notified that the coins might be electrotypes. He has a 1793 half cent listed too, with a similar comment.
Isn't it remarkable that the sellers of this "scam material" almost always keep the bidders' IDs private. Now I wonder if there is a reason for this. Could it be that they don't want anyone to alert the bidders as to what they could potentially acquire. Nah.........
Fantastic! Thanks for all the input! As some of you know I am trying to fill a 1793-1857 large cent set and I am missing most of the 1793-1809 coins. Now that I am in the realm of what I consider BIG BUCKS I need more education so I joined the EAC and purchased the Sheldon book and now I talk to all you wonderful people who always give you honest opinions. I just feel bad that some poor person will pay over $1000 for these coins because they have appeal! I must say I was tempted I have the itch to fill my openings
Paluka
Posts: 68
Comments
Dave
Stay away.
Tbig
<< <i>Both are fakes!
Stay away.
Tbig >>
What is it about the photos that would prompt you to state that they are fake?
The Wreath Cent has smooth, uncorroded surfaces but the Chain Cent appears to have been recolored and likely has some corrosion. Both ARE genuine, however. The photos are so blurry that it's impossible to determine whether the surfaces have been "improved" in any way, so some caution is advised.
It always amazes me that sellers would expect you to part with thousands of daollars and yet provide such awful photos!
I just do not trust the auction. Is there a money back gaurentee?
My opinions
Tbig
The face on the chain looks like a witch, funny wear if its real.
The big giveaway on the Chain Cent is the obverse die. The Ameri. (S1) variety is only married to one obverse die. In this case, the layout is wrong on the obverse die, particularly in the spacing of the date. On S1 Chain Cents, the date is the first thing to go, as the date is weakly struck on all S1 examples. Considering that this replica has VG-8 wear, the date should be weak, but instead it is the strongest feature. I am certain that this is an electrotype or modern cast copy that has received simulated wear. There are a few other problems that I see.
Regarding the Wreath Cent, it is also a copy. I can't tell from the photos, but it may be a cast or electrotype as well. The obverse is somewhat convincing, but the reverse is completely wrong. The leaves on the obverse are wrong and the reverse is an unknown die (???). My guess is that a genuine Wreath was used to make the dies, but the dies were reworked for detail enhancements. Those die changes coupled with the washout effect of cast copies results in coins that look like the images provided. Add in some accelerated, simulated wear and you have copies that could be convincing if you are a beginning collector. To me, these factors result in a stack-up of errors that helps to identify these as fakes.
We have similar coins offered to us on a regular basis. Some copies are better than others. Perhaps it is not fair of us to evaluate these coins from the scans, but I am confident in my opinion. Having the coins in hand would be very beneficial. On convincing counterfeits (die transfer, struck copies) I like to weigh and measure the coins and put them under a 30X scope.
Just our humble opinion! jadecoin
Now that the experts have spoken, what are you going to do about it? Can you give us the auction link so that we can notify any potential bidders?
PS - I agree......both are fakes.
What Coinguy1 said!
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
Wreath
Chain
He has AMAZING luck in his little apartment cleaning business.
Russ, NCNE
I must say I was tempted
Oh man!
K S
Wreath is $610 and Chain is $2150
Russ, NCNE