Wow!!! PCGS in the month of June graded over...

mnmcoin · July 12, 2003 2:43PM

...140,000 coins. That has to be some record. The figure was from a cs rep I talked to on Friday, when I was checking on some grades. I remember about 4 years ago, when I starting using PCGS, they were grading around 40 or 50 thousand coins, and they were fairly pleased with those numbers. And if I remember correctly post 1950 bulk was responsible for about 40% of that number.

I would really like to know the breakdowns of the following comparables...

Bulk vs. non-bulk (including pre-1930, 1930-1964, 1965-1978 and the ultra modern 1980s-present breakdowns for bulk)

Economy vs. Regular vs. Express vs. Modern etc. (including including pre-1930, 1930-1964, 1965-1978 and the ultra modern 1980s-present breakdowns)

US coins vs. World

Breakdown of the number of coins graded for each series

Submissions on dealer numbers vs. collector club numbers

And even a comparable that is probably not tabulated...

Toned vs. White

Maybe Carol or BJ can shed some light...but before that I would love to hear some estimations from the members here.

What other comparables would be interesting?

morris <><

Placid · July 12, 2003 2:45PM

Interesting.

LucyBop · July 12, 2003 3:02PM

I only want to know about the ones they have graded with the name HepKitty on the submission form!

relayer · July 12, 2003 4:21PM

Wow that's a ton! I would have been happy if they graded 140,020 so I could get mine back.

I wonder how much it is effecting their error rate?

cherrypickincoin · July 12, 2003 4:47PM

So let's see. They did approximately 140,000 coins in one month with 7 full-time graders, that I'm aware of. There were 21 business days in the month of June, not including show dates, especially Long Beach. If every grader showed up to work every day during the month of June and worked non-stop 8 hours a day every business day, this would be about 6,667 coins per day. This means about 833 coins are graded per hour, divide this sum into 60 minutes an hour means approximately 14 coins are graded per minute at PCGS, divide this sum by 7 full time graders and you come up with 2 coins per minute by each grader. So in essence, it takes 30 seconds for the pro's to grade a coin, enter it in the system and pass it along! This is not counting all the variables mentioned above, of course.

jonesy · July 12, 2003 7:28PM

I ......

291fifth · July 12, 2003 8:01PM

Why do I suspect that most of what is being graded is modern junk?

ksteelheader · July 12, 2003 8:40PM

Why do I suspect that most of what is being graded is modern junk?....One mans junk is another mans jewel !!! Remember that. Collect what you choose to and let the other person collect what he/she chooses to, without sarcastic remarks....Ken

Conder101 · July 12, 2003 9:03PM

You may be overlooking one thing. Each coin is supposed to be examined by THREE graders, so 140,000 coins means 420,000 gradings. That would drop the grading time per coin down to about 10 seconds per coin! (Does the 140,000 figure include all of the coins submitted or just what made it into slabs? PCGS usualy uses the term "graded" so I would assume that it is the number of coins actually slabbed. If that is true then the grading time must be reduced still further.)

ms70 · July 12, 2003 9:32PM

<< Why do I suspect that most of what is being graded is modern junk? >>

It's been mentioned on occasion here that the moderns are probably what's clogging the system. All the state quarters
and SAEs might be the reason for the long turn around on grading times.

ursabear · July 12, 2003 9:45PM

That is a tremendous amount of coins in any event. I suspect, however, that the graders are not working 8x5. I think they're probably working their tails off more like 9-10x6 right now. It wouldn't behoove them to tone down production like that.

Conder101 has a good point, too. Some coins (all, maybe?) go through a process with more than one of the graders.

I think the graders have a huge task. I admire them greatly!

Peetie · July 12, 2003 9:52PM

<< [Q All the state quarters
and SAEs might be the reason for the long turn around on grading times. >>

From what I understand they have full time modern graders. My guess would be that they can grade modern coins faster than the older classics. Probably 95% of the moderns that go in are going to be Mint State (with the exception of Marty's AU58's and Braddicks Fr02's

) and the grader really only has to focus on a 10 point scale--MS60 to MS70.

The classic coins are going to run the entire 70 point scale, perhaps making the grader take a little more time to zero in on the grade. JMO

BAJJERFAN · July 12, 2003 10:10PM

<"I wonder how much it is effecting their error rate?">

It might be affecting their error rate some but I hope its not effecting their error rate at all.

Barry · July 12, 2003 11:52PM

<< You may be overlooking one thing. Each coin is supposed to be examined by THREE graders... >>

You really think things like ASEs are looked at by more than one grader? It wouldn't surprise me if they just randomly assign 68 or 69 to them, unless there's an obvious mark.

Also, I think a smart move would be to have a moratorium on modern submissions for a month or so, until they catch up.

DHeath · July 13, 2003 12:16AM

Those are very big numbers. I tip my hat to the crew. Those are some strained eyeballs. I expect the shareholders will love the quarterly. Grading seems to have eased a bit, and I see FAR less whining about severe grading than I did 6 mos ago. I also see some of the high-end coins being annointed and some crossovers made. NGC and PCGS are both doing superb jobs right now, and I'd say it is a wonderful thing. I hope they can all keep up the pace. It's good news for the hobby.

airplanenut · July 13, 2003 1:05AM

<< You may be overlooking one thing. Each coin is supposed to be examined by THREE graders, so 140,000 coins means 420,000 gradings. >>

Not fully true. If two graders agree, the coin is slabbed as such. If two disagree, it goes to a third who will hopefully agree with one of the two.

Jeremy

cherrypickincoin · July 13, 2003 1:07AM

conder,

That's a valid point with regard to each coin being graded three times. However, since that variable cannot be proven I did not include it, that's basically an unkown.

I would imagine that the only coins that get passed along for consensus grading are borderline pieces, such as a Morgan Dollar resting on the edge of a 64/65. Especially for circulated grades, I doubt a VF20 gets passed along for consensus grading because circulated grades are obviously the easiest, in comparison to the eleven mint state grades.

EVERY coin goes through at least two graders at PCGS, we know this. That includes the grader and then the finalizer who passes it immediately on to encapsulation. I'm sure some other pieces, such as Incuse Indian gold, may go through three graders.

This would be an excellent question to ask David Hall the next time he's around.

vrtech99 · July 13, 2003 1:25AM

One thing that just irritates me to no end is how some members on here consistently bash
"Modern" coin collectors and think that PCGS ahould basically quit wasteing time on grading these coins!!!! I have been collecting coins since 1963 when my grandfather gave me my first 1878 morgan as a xmas gift. I will tell you that that coin is very special to me, but the 16 PCGS ms-67 state quarters that are in the set i am building for my grandson is just as special!! In fact they are more special than the PCGS ms-65 1900 O/CC coin i have. So if you dont want to collect the "moderns" fine, don't but at least remember when you started collecting coins and remember the kids and new collectors of today is what will carry this great hobby into the future...

Just my opinion!!!

cherrypickincoin · July 13, 2003 1:32AM

vrtech,

Some people are always going to bash moderns and it's very unfortunate. The entire philosophy that a modern coin is not collectable or can't be worth money is flawed. Many of them are worth many times more than their classic counterparts! Obviously they wouldn't be worth anything if so many people did not collect them. People need to get their head out of their arse and respect what other people collect. I wouldn't bash anyone's collection of butterflies, I certainly don't do it myself but I wouldn't disapprove of it simply because I collected something else.

vrtech99 · July 13, 2003 1:36AM

DITTOS___ Brian

cupronik · July 13, 2003 2:43AM

140,000(!) coins graded in the month of June by PCGS?

What coins are being graded in large numbers? One area that is NOT
being graded in any significant quantity is CIRCULATION STRIKE
MODERN COINS.

I continually monitor the pop reports and notice the populations of these coins only increase an occasional coin or two (if at all.)
This is especially true with clad quarters and FS Jeff 5c.

140,000 is an enormous number of coins graded in one month. I
would like to see a breakdown by category of such a number.

Conder101 · July 13, 2003 2:43AM

Ok, so make it two graders instead of three. You are now at 15 seconds per coin. And that is if the 140,000 figure is total sumissions, if it is for just the actually slabbed coins then the time goes down. And that 5 seconds is to get the coin out of the box, take it out of the flip, look at the obverse, look at the reverse, decide on a grade (to within one point), put the coin back into the flip, put it in the other box, and enter the grade into the computer. (Somewhere in there your supposed to authenticate that coin as well.) That is a LOT to do in 15 seconds, and to do over and over again without stopping I'm sure leads to burnout. (Anyone want the coins they grade after 4 PM?)

mnmcoin · July 13, 2003 4:06AM

Wow, great discussions guys. This was one of the two reasons I posted this thread, the other to bring light to the amazing job PCGS is doing. Keep up the good work.

Also, regarding the number of graders involved...according to the new dealer pricing sheet, which for the first time I have seen had a column added that showed the number of graders involved on each coin for the different grading tiers, and I believe that with exception to reholders each tier had at least three graders with one or two tiers going as high as 5 or 6 graders. I would say conder's accessment of three per is probably a good average to use.

Let's here some more. I love discussions like these.

morris <><

LucyBop · July 13, 2003 4:11AM

<< wouldn't bash anyone's collection of butterflies >>

MadMarty will appreciate that!

cladking · July 13, 2003 4:12AM

Very few of the regular circulation strike moderns are very scarce in unc. Because of
this it is difficult for a circulated coin to get much of a premium even though some of these
rare. A coin like a nice well struck XF '68-D quarter is rare but the tens of thousands of
unattractive MS-60's is holding them back currently. As time goes by collectors may well
decide that attractive circs are better than unattractive unc and then these will go in for
grading.

Most of the more desirable modern circ are still in circulation or recently found by a newer
collector. It will also be some time before these will go in for grading. For instance there
are only two '72-D DDR quarters known. One of these appears mid die state. With dies
striking hundreds of thousands of coins it would seem a certainty that there are still many
of these in circulation. Of course like most moderns they are heavily worn now.

Russ · July 13, 2003 4:15AM

Why do I suspect that most of what is being graded is Morgan Dollar junk?

Russ, NCNE

Louis · July 13, 2003 4:19AM

vrtech99 · July 13, 2003 4:24AM

Russ · July 13, 2003 4:31AM

Why do I suspect that most of what is being graded is St. Gaudens junk?

Russ, NCNE

vrtech99 · July 13, 2003 4:34AM

LincolnCentMan · July 13, 2003 4:47AM

I'm hopeing my coins will be a part of this month's statistic. I'm at 71 days now on my submission, almost 1/5th of a year. Hopefully, it'll be worth the wait...

David

abuell · July 13, 2003 4:55AM

Wow!!! PCGS in the month of June graded over 140,000 coins. Yes, and mind you, these are RARE coins that they are grading!!!

DHeath · July 13, 2003 4:58AM

Abuell,

Most of the rare ones go to ANACS, because of the condition they're in.

Wow!!! PCGS in the month of June graded over...

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