where was scamcrook when we really needed him?

cointagious · July 11, 2003 8:24PM

a currency board member found this seller schaefer_red_seal auctioning 5 notes from the inventory of well known and respected dealer tim kyzivat. this was a real scam involving major money! all of the auctions have been stopped and the seller is in for legal action.

had scamcrook done things the right way, he'd be around today to fight evil, defend justice and uphold the American way. instead, he got caught up in the minutiae of someone calling a medallion a coin. scamcrook dropped his left. he was ill suited to be a hero.

coinguy1 · July 11, 2003 11:28PM

contagious, I will pass your comments along to scamcrook.

Please note, however, his gripe was not merely over the recent seller's listing a "medallion" as a rare coin. It was also about listing completely bogus, rediculously inflated, made-up retail prices in his coin offerings.

FatMan · July 11, 2003 11:59PM

<< scamcrook dropped his left. he was ill suited to be a hero. >>

scamcrook remains a hero. His efforts are commendable whether combatting $5 fraud or $1000 fraud. Thanks scamcrook!

4thStooge · July 12, 2003 12:01AM

We are here to bury scamcrook, not to praise him.

Good riddance!

Steve355 · July 12, 2003 4:06AM

"We are here to bury scamcrook, not to praise him"

Who the hell are you kidding ??

Scamcrook's efforts should be commended !!

Those who oppose his efforts, are likely more interested in the kind of activity Scamcrook has
exposed.

IMHO, the FBI or AG should start to investigate not only the scamsters, but the cancers to this great
hobby, ie AH, the sleazy ebay sellers, etc, who sell hideously and deliberately overgraded / altered /
counterfeit crap to the newbie and the "bargain hunters" under the guise of legitimate certification.

Anybody who condones the activities of any of these cretins simply has no credibility; this includes
those who show up here or on RCC to shill for ACG, AH, NTC, anytime someone brings up (yet another)
valid example of chicanery from the cretins.

Steve

NumisEd · July 12, 2003 4:15AM

I like scamcrook. He is an asset to us on the right side of the morality and ethics. I still don't understand why ebay cancelled his account.

K6AZ · July 12, 2003 4:18AM

Don't pay any attention to the stooge, he thinks people like Al Hager have a license to fleece collectors. Another pusher of garbage masquerading here as a "collector".

Steve355 · July 12, 2003 4:32AM

These boards are loaded with people who really know their stuff.

They cherish the hobby, and are assets to numismatics both for business and pleasure.

Ebay should be much more responsive to the complaints / suggestions that come from these
boards.

But they probably won't, because of the revenue gained from the cretins (many have huge FB totals);
it might cost them a few cents / share off their balance sheet if these accounts are NARU'd.

Too bad scamcrook didn't have a 5000+ FB figure, then nailed a few of the scamsters / cretins. Would
have been verrry interesting to see how ebay would handle things....

Steve

Mark · July 12, 2003 4:48AM

I strongly disagree with 4th stooge. But I think his position is defensible. Take the following parallel situations: Suppose you saw someone breaking into a neighbor's house (Suppose you saw someone committing a scam on ebay). You call the police. (You report the auction to ebay.) Suppose the police do not respond. (Suppose ebay does not shut down the auction.) Would you then take matters into your own hand by attempting to apprehend the burglar? (Would you take matters into your own hand by attempting to win the auction?)

4th stooge, for whatever reason, answers "no" to the question; scamcrook answers "yes." 4th stooge has his reasons for answering no--they might be a strongly held set of laissez faire beliefs, they might be that he doesn't think the auction is a scam, they might be that he is in the pay (somehow) of the scamming auctioneers, or whatever. I don't know 4th stooge's reasons and I can't speculate. But at least some of the possible reasons--laissez faire beliefs, for instance--are, in my opinion, morally defensible.

That said, I hasten to add that I think scamcrook was a hero and that K6AZ's posting of factual information about ACG is a tremendous asset to the web.

Mark

KlectorKid · July 12, 2003 4:57AM

Stooge for some reason thinks that selling bullion as real coins is a ethical practice. Because he has a "friend" who also makes money selling those bullion coins "without using scams" and can get $100 each. (The bullion was at over $600.) But I think that scamcrook is a reliable good do-er that should be comended for his fight agianst Sleaze-Bay scum.

4thStooge · July 12, 2003 5:28AM

<< Scamcrook's efforts should be commended !! >>

Scamcrook went about the it wrong way. Period!

<< they might be that he doesn't think the auction is a scam, >>

The auction was, at best, mildly misleading. There was no one that posted that was mistaken. Why assume that the bidders were?
People that bid that kind of money for a bullion item can ]never be protected from their own stupidity. They'll manage to loose that money somehow when your back is turned.

<< they might be that he is in the pay (somehow) of the scamming auctioneers, or whatever. >>

Not hardly.

<< Those who oppose his efforts, are likely more interested in the kind of activity Scamcrook has >>

More often than not, when a scam is uncovered and revealed by a board member it is usually a case of the pot calling the kettle black. The respect heaped upon fellow board members because of their posting accumen is not always deserved. The outting that is done by board members is akin to an old political and marketing ploy of pointing out the failings of others while committing many of the same acts themselves.

coinguy1 · July 12, 2003 5:59AM

Scamcrook asked me to thank everyone for their support. And, to mention, as done in another thread, that he gave negative feedback to the seller, not merely because of the 1889-CC listing.

It was also about listing completely bogus, rediculously inflated, made-up retail prices in his coin offerings. Here is just one example of how the guy works. In the auction linked below, he lists a "RET" price of $1150 for a coin which appears to be high grade AU or low grade MS, at best. Please explain to me where he got a "RET" value of $1150?! You can't, because he didn't get it from anywhere - he made it up. The seller is an outright liar, who seeks to deceive, plain and simple.

Link

Finally, I have been sorely tempted to reply, directly, to some of 4th Stooge's comments like the one below. Instead, I will reply indirectly - I think you guys are doing just fine in that regard. He either doesn't know me or doesn't care to hear the truth.

<< More often than not, when a scam is uncovered and revealed by a board member it is usually a case of the pot calling the kettle black >>

TWODOGS · July 12, 2003 6:21AM

Scamcrook was destined to go down in flames from the start. It couldn't have ended any other way.

Better to burn out than to fade away.

Good job scamcrook.

kranky · July 12, 2003 6:34AM

<< The auction was, at best, mildly misleading. There was no one that posted that was mistaken. Why assume that the bidders were? >>

So you think someone who paid $600 for a repro knew exactly what he was getting.

<< People that bid that kind of money for a bullion item can never be protected from their own stupidity. They'll manage to loose that money somehow when your back is turned. >>

I think I get it now. We should assume the bidders know what they are doing, but since they are stupid and are going to get scammed by someone eventually, that makes it OK. Is that right?

kyuss · July 12, 2003 7:06AM

I don't think he's saying RETail is 1150, that's the RETurn fee. ;-) He has lots of overhead and restocking a coin is expensive these days. ;-)

coinguy1 · July 12, 2003 7:12AM

kyuss, you make an excellent point!

DHeath · July 12, 2003 9:22AM

Cervantes certainly had it right. There are many ways to view the world. I prefer Scamcrooks perspective.

1jester · July 13, 2003 1:38AM

Scamcrook rules....ruled.

By the way, Stooge, just because there is a fool born every minute does NOT mean it's legitimate or defensible to take advantage of them.

braddick · July 13, 2003 3:10AM

<< I strongly disagree with 4th stooge. But I think his position is defensible. Take the following parallel situations: Suppose you saw someone breaking into a neighbor's house (Suppose you saw someone committing a scam on ebay). You call the police. (You report the auction to ebay.) Suppose the police do not respond. (Suppose ebay does not shut down the auction.) Would you then take matters into your own hand by attempting to apprehend the burglar? (Would you take matters into your own hand by attempting to win the auction?) 4th stooge, for whatever reason, answers "no" to the question; scamcrook answers "yes." 4th stooge has his reasons for answering no--they might be a strongly held set of laissez faire beliefs, they might be that he doesn't think the auction is a scam, they might be that he is in the pay (somehow) of the scamming auctioneers, or whatever. I don't know 4th stooge's reasons and I can't speculate. But at least some of the possible reasons--laissez faire beliefs, for instance--are, in my opinion, morally defensible. That said, I hasten to add that I think scamcrook was a hero and that K6AZ's posting of factual information about ACG is a tremendous asset to the web. Mark >>

Take this a step further. What if the "suspect" ends up being the home owner's out of state brother and although he had permission to enter the dwelling, didn't have a key?

Scamcrook is good at what he does (did?). What if the next wannabe isn't and decides to harrass YOUR auctions over an issue that he believes is a "violation" whereas it is not? There have been auctions posted here as fraudulent that later proved to be valid and worthy.

What is your recourse then? I'm pleased at Scamcook's successes but wary of the legion of do-gooders that are primed and ready to step in and attempt to take his place.

where was scamcrook when we really needed him?

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