eBay item 2741545660 (Ends Jul-20-03 20:00:00 PDT) - JAGR GOLD REFRACTOR INVOLVED IN TOPPS LAWSUIT

BECKETTSUCKS · July 11, 2003 2:10PM

A message to the card companies would be to straighten up and fly right as collectors are not going to take it anymore. With the high prices of cards these days the different card companies need to be very careful with what they do.

eBay item 2741545660 (Ends Jul-20-03 20:00:00 PDT) - JAGR GOLD REFRACTOR INVOLVED IN TOPPS LAWSUIT

AkbarClone · July 11, 2003 2:53PM

If he spent $52,000 on getting those 157 cards, then he AVERAGED $331.21 per card. Does anyone know the BV of that card before the fraud was discovered?

seth2720 · July 11, 2003 3:05PM

Thats wack..im glad topps got slamed for that f**kin BS!

Quasar31 · July 11, 2003 3:14PM

someone should sue that guy for charging 8$ for s/h, lol geesh

BECKETTSUCKS · July 11, 2003 3:19PM

Subj: Topps Lawsuit and Becketts Participation
Date: 7/12/03 1:16:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: David12869
To: customerservice@beckett.com, jbeckett@beckett.com
To: khogue@beckett.com, gsandground@beckett.com
To: mharwell@beckett.com, cborden@beckett.com
To: abaringer@beckett.com, lbird@beckett.com
To: mobert@beckett.com, dsliepka@beckett.com
To: dtate@beckett.com, hmurphy@beckett.com
To: mcheatham@beckett.com, lgibbs@beckett.com

This is very interesting and I would like to get a comment on Beckett from this.

eBay item 2741545660 (Ends Jul-20-03 20:00:00 PDT) - JAGR GOLD REFRACTOR INVOLVED IN TOPPS LAWSUIT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2741545660&cate gory=2954

Why would Mr.Sandground even be involved in this? An even more important question would be why did Beckett feel the need to side with Topps and not the collector in this case when they in fact knew of the wrong doing?

apoidea · July 11, 2003 5:17PM

Im missing something, is there MORE than 150 of each card? If so, how much more. And it doesnt really say why they went to court. Did someone buy a card for hundreds of dollars when its really only worth a couple bucks?

BECKETTSUCKS · July 11, 2003 8:24PM

To my understanding this guy started out trying to corner the market on these cards. They were supposed to be limited to only 149 cards yet he was able to get 159 of them (and who knows how many more are out there). He basically called Topps out on their mistake and they were not willing to do anything so he sued, and rightly so.

Truthfully it disgusts me. Topps knew they did wrong yet they made the poor guy jump through hoops to get a resolution. The biggest part however is that Beckett actually sided with Topps when they knew what was going on. This tells everything, the card companies don't care about collectors and Beckett doesn't care about collectors. All they want is that almighty dollar!

I would urge anyone and everyone to email Beckett and ask questions about this. Let them know that this is not ok!

Let them know that they need to start thinking what's in the best interest of the collectors and not the advertisers.

jbeckett@beckett.com
mharwell@beckett.com
gsandground@beckett.com
khogue@beckett.com
cborden@beckett.com
abaringer@beckett.com
lbird@beckett.com
mobert@beckett.com
dsliepka@beckett.com
dtate@beckett.com
hmurphy@beckett.com
mcheatham@beckett.com
lgibbs@beckett.com
customerservice@beckett.com

Pinchdatail · July 12, 2003 1:36AM

$52,000 to buy the cards + $135,000 legal fees = $187,000.

$167,400 jury award - $187,000 = NEGATIVE $19,600

Wow! While I'm glad Topps (and Beckett) messed with the wrong guy and were exposed, but I wonder if he'll ever break even on this by auctioning the cards on eBay. He'd have to get $123.27 per card if he sold all of them! No wonder he's making up some of the difference with inflated shipping charges. Maybe he should send them all to PSA for grading and get even more in the hole.

Hondo · July 12, 2003 2:15AM

Maybe Topps had to pay for all Legal fees also.

Raymond · July 12, 2003 5:05AM

Hello, David. Why does it NOT surprise me to see you posting this (rather old) story on every board in cyperspace????

Anyways, this is an interesting topic. Brings up MANY different things.

First, Topps printing more then the stated print run. Could it be an honest and isolated mistake? Sure. But I highly doubt it. What are the odd of this guy cornering the market on the one mistake Topps made? Yeah right! Topps was either intentionally sloppy or lying and this is likely the tip of the iceburg. Topps deserved to get slammed. Should have been harder.

As far as Topps denying everything and dragging their feet and trying to stall until this guy ran out of money, welcome to America. Corporations would rather do this then admit guilt. Admitting guilt means lost money. Deny, deny, deny. Try to bury it, settlt it or whatever. Just don't let it get into the paper. Doesn't make it right and I'm glad Topps got burned. But the problem is with the system.

Beckett's involvement is something I am uncertain about. What exactly did Beckett do or not do? Let's review a little about Beckett. Beckett is NOT, nor does it pretend to be, an unbiased critical newsbreaking organisation in the field of card collecting. It is there to provide a price guide and to grade cards (I agree putting a price guide on it's own graded cards is a conflict of interest). It's interests are therefore to see the card companies do well. Therefore, it will promote these companies. This is NOT a conflict of interests. If I manufacture a car part and I supply General Motors, then it's in my best interest to see GM succeed. If it fails, I fail. So I may even promote my association with GM. No problem. This does NOT mean that we don't need a more balenced, objective and critical source for news and information. In entertainment, ET puts out nothing but fluff about new movies and shows. Siskel and Ebbert is more critical. Both serve a purpose.

That being said, if Beckett simply reported Topps positions, then it did nothing wrong. If they reported NOTHING, well, it's not in their mandate to do that either. IF they came to Topps defense, especially in court, then they were WAY out of line.

I hope this issue wakes up the card companies. They need to be more accountable. We need some magazine of some kind that reports things fairly, good and bad, as well as CRITICAL reviews of new products. But this must not be a rag that does nothing but bash the hobby (we have CardCop and his delusional paranoia to do that). Believe it or not, I actually agree with David.

However, I find it interesting that David has posted this stuff everywhere. If you want to talk about conflict of interest, you have a longstanding grudge with Becketts and it seems that you are simply using this chance to bash at them. It's Topps that's is in the wrong, so why aren't you posting Topps e-mails??? Just curious.....

BECKETTSUCKS · July 12, 2003 4:46PM

If anyone has any of Topps emails I would be glad to post them and even email them myself.

This isn't the only thing Beckett has covered up and I have proof. I may have to sign a confidentiality agreement with Playoff to get a resolution to a problem I am having but I will be sure and let everyone know Becketts involvement in it.

Unfortunately I will not be able to post on the Beckett message boards as promised but perhaps you can post there for me Raymond.

kr580 · July 12, 2003 5:05PM

<< It's Topps that's is in the wrong, so why aren't you posting Topps e-mails??? Just curious..... >>

you sure are retarded... Topps doesn't HAVE any customer support emails or any of the sort... oh wait... webmaster@topps.com

take your know-it-all self back to Beckett... quit goin on other boards and whining

Vincecarder · July 13, 2003 1:31AM

Usually in a lawsuit, the legal fees are added to the final amount. Not sure how it worked out here but I'm pretty sure this guy came out alright.

That's just an insaine amount to spend on one type of card. 159 of the same card.....there are probably more of that out there too...how can they prove all of the packs were opened?

RUTH · July 13, 2003 4:15AM

This guy was just on ESPN at 130 pm today -Jeremy was doing a report on Donruss and their event worn cards.They had this guy and some long time collector on debating about cards.Jeremy said this guy got $177,000 from Topps-the guy said he formerly was a internet card dealer but dosent keep up with it much now.Also on the show was the Donruss COO (the boss)I would imagine Topps had to pay all legal fees + $177,000 .

dherm360 · July 13, 2003 4:18AM

I saw that too. Didnt look like he was real happy and is totally disillusioned with collecting. I agree they had to pay legal fees plus the final judgement.

What I wonder is if Topps got their cards back as part of the judgement

RUTH · July 13, 2003 4:32AM

I think he wanted to corner the market on that 1 card -and would have people that were Jagr collectors or set builders paying huge amounts for it if he decided to sell it.He probably wasted tons of time and effort on the case-it went on for years so $177,000 really isnt very much.To some people that's 3 to 4 years salary-about how long this case went on for.

Raymond · July 13, 2003 7:35AM

<< take your know-it-all self back to Beckett... quit goin on other boards and whining >>

Arrogant little punk.

Read my post. I clearly feel Topps is in the wrong here. But I also wanted to know WHAT Beckett did that is pissing everyone off. Beckett serves a purpose, but it is NOT the role of collector advocate. It is a price guide and is a vehicle for promotion for the card companies. It has no mandate to police the industry but everyone seems to think that it should. It would be nice for Beckett to fill that role, but even if it knowingly looked the other way, they still did nothing wrong. Now, since a Beckett representative testified on Topps behalf, there may be wrongdoing. If they lied about production runs and such, then he should go to jail. If he gives his opinion as to how the plantiff was financially damaged if 10 extra cards are in existance, then he is giving his opinion.

I'm NOT a big fan of Becketts. Their price guide serves a purpose (but prices are inflated and e-bay is a far more accurate guide for card value). The grading service is respectable (although I would prefer a card graded by PSA), and their magazine is ufeful to line my birdcage.
But if everyone is going to slam Becketts for this fraud when it was commited by Topps, then I think you all have a an axe to grind that has nothing to do with this case.

Please enlighten me as to the testamony of the Beckett's representative so that I can come to my own conclusion.

BTW, the only thing I like about Becketts is the message board. You don't have all the losers with pics of their fantasy girls and their real life girlfriend in their sig jumping acting like 7 year olds who forgot to take their Ritalin.

goodriddance189 · July 13, 2003 7:43AM

interesting article to say the least. ive always wanted to corner the market on a low numbered card, but i dont have the funds and id end up cornering the market on a crappy card that no one wanted anyways.

jerseyman · July 13, 2003 7:48AM

<< losers with pics of their fantasy girls and their real life girl in their sig jumping acting like 7 year olds who forgot to take their Ritalin >>

give me an O, give me a U, give me a C, give me an H

kr580 · July 13, 2003 7:49AM

<< 

<< take your know-it-all self back to Beckett... quit goin on other boards and whining >>

Arrogant little punk.
---
BTW, the only thing I like about Becketts is the message board. You don't have all the losers with pics of their fantasy girls and their real life girlfriend in their sig jumping acting like 7 year olds who forgot to take their Ritalin. >>

stuck-up old hag...

whats wrong with admiring one's beauty?... thats all i'm doin...

and i don't have a G/F, and even if i did, she sure as hell wouldn't be jumpin around... thats what i hate the most... hyper people.

kr580 · July 13, 2003 7:51AM

<< Read my post. I clearly feel Topps is in the wrong here. But I also wanted to know WHAT Beckett did that is pissing everyone off. >>

what what the he11 does feeling this way or that about what's happening to someone have to do with there not being any emails for Topps? you're really intelligent

Raymond · July 13, 2003 8:13AM

<< what what the he11 does feeling this way or that about what's happening to someone have to do with there not being any emails for Topps? you're really intelligent

>>

English please. I don't speak trailer park.....

Bobstar · July 13, 2003 8:16AM

I really don't like either Topps or Beckett for thier involvement in this whole deal. At the same time, I can't really feel bad about this nimrod who was trying to "corner" the market on thie paticular card
hoping to make a bundle when he went to sell each of them.
It's that age old ugly thing "GREED" that got this idiot into this fix.
He deserves what happened to him. That's why I have to laugh at these jerks when they take a hit like this.
Like someone said a long time ago; collect who & what you like & enjoy the hobby! That way, your collection will always be priceless in your eyes; no matter what any book or anyone else might think.
CJs & my collection of cards are priceless to us & always will be!

dherm360 · July 13, 2003 8:26AM

I disagree with Bobstar. Cornering the market isnt a bad thing. Maybe he collects Jagr, and you said yourself collect what you like and players you like. Maybe he Likes Jagr ALOT.
I have for sometime been trying to get each of /25 spectrum of Levens. Does that mean I'm trying to corner the market, maybe, But I think it is a challange so I'm trying it.

Everyone should feel bad for this guy. He got screwed by a company which made claims to him and you and me. What else will we find down the road. Mistakes I'm sure happen with pop reports and numbers issued but when he has proof of their error they should have acted in a responsible manner.

ToppsFraud · July 23, 2003 1:15AM

there has been numerous posts here about topps having to pay my legal fees...well they didn't. my legal fess were approximately $135,000 and that is not a typo...i spent $52,000 on the cards...i got $177,000 total from them....do the math...not a good deal...not to mention all the time and effort i spent on this. topps got off easy and they now it. a class action suit is in the works. here is the link to my page about the suit:

http://hometown.aol.com/toppsfraud/myhomepage/profile.html

eBay item 2741545660 (Ends Jul-20-03 20:00:00 PDT) - JAGR GOLD REFRACTOR INVOLVED IN TOPPS LAWSUIT

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