White coins: how can you tell if they are original vs. dipped?

dan1ecu

Is there a way to tell if an un-toned, blast white coin is original as opposed to having been conserved? A bad dipping would probably be obvious, but is there a way to spot a dipped coin if the dipping is done by experts?

Dan

dorkkarl

doh!

K S

nwcs

After you dip a few, you can tell. Uniformity of color, sometimes the reflectivity changes from what you'd expect. The color can be slightly off. The edges will have no tarnish. If it was recently done and not done well, it'll smell like acid.

dan1ecu

I've had a couple of slabbed coins that were dipped, and they developed spots while in the holder. It's annoying. I try to avoid dipped coins.

Dan

Iwog

You can never tell for sure if a coin has been dipped. If the coin is white with impaired luster, or is white with a few distinct black spots, it is probably dipped. Even toned coins have often been dipped and allowed to recolor.

Blast white coins with good luster have almost always been dipped unless they are silver dollars or moderns.

dragon

If you're experienced, you can usually tell if a white coin has recently been dipped, the key word is usually, not 100% of the time in all cases. Most untoned, undipped classic coins will show a slight trace of patina or dirt when tilted away from the light or when backlit. A good way to check sometimes is to hold the coin at an angle with your back to the sunlight,,,,,an original undipped white piece will show a very light covering of what looks like dirt or a slight film on it at certain angles, it may also show slight color around the denticles or in the recesses. A recently dipped coin will appear barren even under these lighting conditions with no trace of patina or dirt. It's hard to explain exactly but if you've seen enough dipped coins, you will know what I mean.

A good coin to practice with would be an untoned GSA dollar (since they haven't been dipped) to see what I mean, they will generally show those shadows or light film or dirty appearance when held backlit from direct sunlight.

dragon

Cam40

It takes alot of viewing of alot of coins to see the differences between dipped and undipped.

I tell by the amount of luster the coin has or doesnt have.
Its a matter of comparsion.

Those that dip DCAM proofs and wonder why their coin didnt come back higher than a 66
probably didnt notice they had dulled the mirrors just enough to be noticable by those that
look at these all day every day.
Same with business strikes. Look for subdued luster on white coins to verify a dipping.
The more dips or longer thje dip ,the more the luster, cartwheel effect is minimized.

Nysoto

Any untoned pre-Morgan coin is dipped, unless it was in a hermetically sealed, inert, non-sulfurous envelope for 130+ years. Unfortunately the dealers and grading services do nothing to discourage dipping for bust and other scarce coins.

The cumulative effects of multiple "proper dippings" will ruin many scarce coins, in addition to those already ruined by "improper dipping".


Stewardship of coins for the next generation of collectors is not a concern to people who dip coins.

As the PNG's mission is to "make the hobby safe for collectors and investors", they should be discouraging the dipping of coins.

Steve27

There is no way to tell. The only exception to this rule is GSA slabbed Morgans and flat pack coins.

Here's an example:

cladking

Sometimes silver coins will turn an ugly color. Nobody will buy ugly looking coins
so they get dipped. Coins can be dipped about 5 to 20 times before they start
looking dipped. In the mean time there may be no way to tell the coin has been
dipped other than the knowledge that such coins are rare in blast white that haven't
been dipped. If smelling coins became popular then it would be simple enough to
neutralize the acid in the dip with the proper base and wash away all the odor with
acetone.

If you really want to fight dipping then just buy some ugly looking tarnished coins
for full price. Dipping would vanish overnight.

pmh1nic

cladking

You calling my coin ugly


Being able to determine whether a coin has been dipped using your eyeballs or low level magnification depends on how much of the surface metal was removed during the dip. Removing metal disrupts the flowlines and changes the way light reflects off the coin impairing the luster. The more metal that is removed the more the flowlines are disrupted and the easier it is to spot the cleaning. When cladking says coins can be dipped 5 ~ 20 times the caution has to be included that it's not just how many times but how long the coin is exposed to the dip each time. One dip, one bad rinse or one haphazed drying can ruin a coin.

cladking

<< <i>cladking

You calling my coin ugly
>>



Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd be hesitant to call any coin ugly.

Certainly a single bad dipping can ruin a coin. Some coins have hidden problems also
and will look much worse after the toning is removed.

michael

dragon posted a great post a year or so on here and i was going to ask him to repeat it

and i see he did already

that is the best worded essay i have ever read that dragon posted on what an original white coin looks like that has not been dipped

i guess i cant really put it into words but i could show you in person sight seen some white coins tha are totally original and extremely rare as such

here are two coins

that have not ever been dipped or cleaned hard to tell exactley from the scan but if you looked at the coin in person i could tell/show you many points that make it a fully original undipped unmolested uncleaned white coin

lusterous thick skinned original white with the "look" i guess hard for me to put into words you really have to see the coin and then i could tell you the points to look for and these two coins have all the points!

sincerely michael

michael

oh the above two coins are not blast white so to speak but are white


here is another coin from the 1940's that is also an original no brainer easy to see fully original never dipped ulmolested coin that is white but again not blast white

sincerely michael

michael

the 1909 half is a gem ms 65 close to 66
the 1874 trade is a gem ms64 ever so close to 65

the 1941 s is a ms66 superb gem and just a nice 66

so they were basically saved/put away ever so soon after they were minted or thereabouts especially so the 41-s in an album by a collector?

with the trade dollar and possibly with the barber half moreso for a keepsake?

sincerely michael

DanC

<< <i> I'd be hesitant to call any coin ugly >>



Oh yeah?

Cam40

Now I lost my appetite for air......

And after Michael posted that WONDERFUL WONDERFUL Walker!!!!!!!

ugh

raycyca

Now that's fuggly in my book!!! Ray

MikeKing

This is a never been dipped silver coin which is brilliant, but actually fully patinated on both sides.