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Everyone should know how to dip coins.
Iwog
Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭
It occurred to me that telling new collectors that dipping is a sin, damages coins, and should be avoided at all cost is doing the hobby a great disservice. There are many ugly ducklings that benefit from a careful cleaning, and besides making these orphans more marketable dipping coins is actually kinda fun. I was amazed at the recent thread (reminded me of a church roll call) of people who swear they have never cleaned a coin and were proud of it. If this is your thing, more power to you however there ARE coins that can be fixed and even upgraded by dipping, and denial is not a river in Egypt.
Someone on this board (I confess I forgot who) sent me this PL dollar to be cleaned. I doubt anyone would argue that a cleaning didn't improve it.
Someone on this board (I confess I forgot who) sent me this PL dollar to be cleaned. I doubt anyone would argue that a cleaning didn't improve it.
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert
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thanks DAVID
79CC great looking coin for $2,000
Barber Quarter yucky yucky
98 P ugly brown periph
97-S DMPL ex-textile pattern
just for the sake of curiosity, do you know what the coins looked like prior to the dip you alledge??
al h.
What a terrific looking 1879-cc Morgan. I think $2K is alittle lite.
The other coins are quite attractive too and needless to say, I share your thoughts on not dipping.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
You are absolutely 110% correct, anytime you dip a coin, you have no clue how it will turn out both initially and over time, and you risk severely degrading the coin even further.
dragon
hey dragon
quite presumptious on your part and from my experience, most definitely not true.
al h.
Wont work, that bum will still want your coins whether they are dipped or not!
When I was cracking out I dipped everything I cracked. I wanted them to look their best for PCGS.
I do have a pretty good idea of a good dip candidate how they will turn out. Unfortunately I wasn't the one who dipped the above coins.
The child with the sissors did it.
The 79-CC shows dip residue around the stars & devices giving it the golden brownish look. I don't know why it was dipped, I'm not the original owner. I guess somebody wanted it to look it's best for the graders. I think it's quite ugly. A redip should clean it up nicely.
The Barber Quarter was light brown from a overdipping & retoning in a ANACS 62 holder. I dipped it and made it silver again and got it in a PCGS 63 holder but too much copper was exposed when the silver was stripped away and it turned brown again. So it was the only one coin that I had anything to do with the ruining of.
The 1898 was freshly dipped & slabbed & blast white when I got it from another board member several years ago who always preached the virtue of the dip.
The 1897-S was darkly toned in the fold of a bag and you can clearly see where the dark stripes were where it was touching the bag and the remains of the bag textile pattern on the face. What a shame.
I'm sure the 90-0 looked like a new coin after Iwog dipped it. But see the black spot on the eagles neck & the N in UNITED in the before pictures? Now look at the after pictures, you can see a pit, that was a slag mark or rather an impurity in the alloy that is still there and in several years the black will be back with a vengance.
I guess to be fair I could post pictures of the coins I properly dipped and still look great years later but that would lessen the effectivness of warning newbies to leave their coins alone wouldn't it?
Very few people do it the proper way with the proper coins.
hey dog
that was a good post and an almost perfect ending. i think i've dipped one MS silver coin, that being a 1989 SAE that for some reason developed light gold tone around the upper obverse rim and darkness inside of the edge. it's around here somewhere in a flip. i bought the coin in 1989, so the color came from improper handling/storage before i got it. aside from that, all i have ever dipped are proof/SMS coins to remove haze. i guess i've seen too many over-dipped and lusterless coins to feel confident enough to take the plunge myself with mint state silver.
the local dealer had such a coin that he had me submit for him last year. it was an SLQ that would probably have graded MS65FH but PCGS bagged it for harsh cleaning . it really upset him, but the coin was dull and nearly luster free despite the great surfaces.
al h.
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
<<< i think i've dipped one MS silver coin, that being a 1989 SAE that for some reason developed light gold tone around the upper obverse rim and darkness inside of the edge.>>>
Has this been the extent of your "experience"???
I've got a few really grungy coins that I probably couldn't give away
unless they were more presentable.
Think I'll start out with the least expensive to get a feel for the process
and , if I feel comfortable with the results, move on to more valueable coins.
FrederickCoinClub
If light haze doesn't dip off with a very quick dip, it's never going to come off because it's etched into the surface of the coin. The PL dollar in my photo didn't have haze so much as numerous hairlines from who knows what. I didn't expect dipping the coin to help with those at all.
<< <i>It occurred to me that telling new collectors that dipping is a sin, damages coins, and should be avoided at all cost is doing the hobby a great disservice. >>
get real. telling new collectors that "gee, you can dip like a pro! just follow my recipe!" is as great a disservice as could be conceived of.
dog is 895% correct. some folks know how to dip coins, a newbie reading your little dissertation who now THINKS he knows how to dip coins is definitely analogous to the child who THINKS he knows how to tell if the gun is loaded when he points it at his friends head.
get real, dude. it's 1 thing if your audience is experienced numismatists, quite another when your audience potentially contains many newbies (such as ,oh, i don't know, this forum for example?)
K S
You gotta love how much contempt is shown for new collectors. I talk a lot about elitism in the hobby, and anyone who wants a PERFECT example of an elitist snob can reference the above sentence. A child cannot be trusted with a loaded gun because a child does not have enough judgment and caution to keep himself safe. Apparently to you, a new coin collector is no more than a child who needs to be protected for his own good. No matter how many times I hear it, I still shake my head in amazement.
We are talking about adults and small pieces of metal. I suggest you get off your pinnacle of superiority and admit that some people might actually LIKE coins without spots and brown gunk on them, and want to know how to get them this way. You think a brand new collector is going to ruin a few 1916 Standing Lib quarters perhaps? A three legger Nic? At worst he's going to smoke a common date blackened Franklin half or AU body bag Morgan that a dealer promised was "originally toned". Good for him, those coins are a menace to the hobby to begin with and would look better buffed with jewelers rouge and put in a bezel.
al h.
<< <i>At worst he's going to smoke a common date blackened Franklin half or AU body bag Morgan that a dealer promised was "originally toned". Good for him, those coins are a menace to the hobby to begin with and would look better buffed with jewelers rouge and put in a bezel. >>
I just can't agree with this thought process. Anything, dipping, whizzing, harsh cleaning and even this --- artificial toning that alters the coin is the true menace. While a light dip might be fine to some, I prefer my coins original, even if that means not as pretty.
Anything that ruins a coin for future generations of collectors only denigrates our hobby.
Michael
<< <i>
<< <i>At worst he's going to smoke a common date blackened Franklin half or AU body bag Morgan that a dealer promised was "originally toned". Good for him, those coins are a menace to the hobby to begin with and would look better buffed with jewelers rouge and put in a bezel. >>
I just can't agree with this thought process. Anything, dipping, whizzing, harsh cleaning and even this --- artificial toning that alters the coin is the true menace. While a light dip might be fine to some, I prefer my coins original, even if that means not as pretty.
Anything that ruins a coin for future generations of collectors only denigrates our hobby.
Michael >>
From a recent thread by Frattlaw....
<< <i>I've picked up several Type II SBAs that were sold as Type Is. Paid about $9.99 each, I then MS70 the haze off, had'em slabbed by PCGS and they sold for $175-$250 each. Find 1 per show and you are doing well $$$$. >>
So I guess this is OK with you if you make money right?
Sometime dipping works to help a coin, sometimes it doesn't.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
Then, what the different coin cleaning products sold today do, or do best.
Lastly , the proper proceedures involved in successufully restoring a coin to a healthier state.
If you think dipping coins is just bad news all the way around, then thats your view and I personally
respect that view.
Some think a dirty coin that is `original` is better than an artifically white example.
Still others are of the mind that the `cleaned coin` is better off in the long run as
surface contaminates can literally eat the coin over time.
Some like toning, some dont.
With the amount of coins out there, everyone should be able to find what they like in about any given coin.
I wouldnt fret over this issue too much folks.
Stuff I,ve learned about dipping coins: dipping copper coins is a no-no period. Unless the dip is acetone.
Some say even acetone will ruin a coin. Personally I havent ever witnessed that.
Best dipping candidates are 90% and 99% silver coins, preferrably high AU and MS coins without very dark toning.
Worst candidates are coppers and Clad coinage.
I thought I knew the `right` way to dip a dippable coin but somehow I missed a crucial step that could come
back to haunt me on a few. That is the neutralizing step. I didnt use the baking soda method but only the
multiple water / acetone dips.
I may redo those if they start to `turn` on me. Reluctantly though as dipping is stripping of that most precious
element of a coin, original mint luster.
How long do you put the coin in the dip?
What do you use to hold the coin while dipping your fingers?
Only one side of the coin is "ugly" can I just dip one side?
<< <i>Whats the best dip? Jewel luster?
How long do you put the coin in the dip?
What do you use to hold the coin while dipping your fingers?
Only one side of the coin is "ugly" can I just dip one side? >>
For goodness sakes, if you're going to dip use clean, fresh dip and don't mix and match metals types.
If you use one dip (Jeweluster) for clad don't turn around and use the same dip for silver and for heaven's sakes, don't dip copper.
Have fun with your dip, but don't think you're going to create wonder coins.
I've had terrible luck with clad proofs (oh, they look good for a few weeks but they always seems to "turn" on me down the road no matter how well I neutralize the coin afterward. I guess it's something to do with the coin's inner core of copper or some whacked reason).
Also, incrusted grayish toning will NOT dip properly off of Peace dollar or Morgans. It'll just looked bleached and you'll ultimately be disapointed.
There are tons of other tips too but you get the idea.
peacockcoins
<< <i>.....a newbie reading your little dissertation who now THINKS he knows how to dip coins is definitely analogous to the child who THINKS he knows how to tell if the gun is loaded when he points it at his friends head.
You gotta love how much contempt is shown for new collectors. I talk a lot about elitism in the hobby, and anyone who wants a PERFECT example of an elitist snob can reference the above sentence. A child cannot be trusted with a loaded gun because a child does not have enough judgment and caution to keep himself safe. Apparently to you, a new coin collector is no more than a child who needs to be protected for his own good. No matter how many times I hear it, I still shake my head in amazement. >>
that's because you are a fool & a nincompoop. you got it right, yet you can't believe you got it right??? your analogy is, in your word, PERFECT. how many times do we have to hear about 8 year old johnny playing w/ daddy's gun & accidentally shooting little bobby, before we realize that YOU DON'T SHOW AN 8 YEAR OLD HOW TO LOAD A GUN UNTIL HE CAN BE RESPONSIBLE!!!
the analogy is excruciatingly obvious when it comes to dipping coins.
<< <i>We are talking about adults and small pieces of metal. I suggest you get off your pinnacle of superiority and admit that some people might actually LIKE coins without spots and brown gunk on them, and want to know how to get them this way. >>
i'll tell you how "some people who actually LIKE coins without spots and brown gunk" can get 'em, it's very simple, BUY COINS THAT ARE ALREADY DIPPED & BLAST WHITE!!!
can it possibly get more simple than that??? what's so hard to understand, that there'S NO NEED to dip coins, since the staggering proportion of uncs have already been dipped, & you can just go buy 1 w/out damaging more???
<< <i>You think a brand new collector is going to ruin a few 1916 Standing Lib quarters perhaps? A three legger Nic? At worst he's going to smoke a common date blackened Franklin half or AU body bag Morgan that a dealer promised was "originally toned". Good for him, those coins are a menace to the hobby to begin with and would look better buffed with jewelers rouge and put in a bezel. >>
oh, suuuuuureeee, they only ruin common coins, right? i suppose that's the explanation as to why there are NO, NONE, NOT A SINGLE RARE COIN EVER BEEN DAMAGED BY DIPPING???
some people like blast-white, that's fine & dandy w/ me. there's a heckuva humongus supply of 'em available, that's my point, & you can just buy 1 that's already dipped. the problem is the moronic attitude of thinking you can buy a coin & "improve" it by dipping it, make it better, make it more valuable, etc. basically, it's a lie when you say people dip coins like the example you gave to make it "look" better. they dip it because they think they can make it more valuable. that's the idiocy. if all they cared about was owning the "look", they could buy 1 that's already dipped & HAS that look..
K S
edited - removed cuss words
Michael
<< <i>Wow Stman you are good!
Michael >>
Michael, as I recall MS-70 is a strong base (positive PH), as opposed to say Jewelluster, which is a somewhat of a mild acid. I'm sure a chemist can enlighten us with the difference they have on the surfaces and how they respectively react to the different metal content of the various coins these 2 cleaners are used on. I know from college chem that the acid cleaner will "bond with" and remove oxides and sulfides from silver & gold - I'm not exactly sure what they do with clad coins as there are several distinct DIFFERENT metals comprising clad coins, one of which is copper and copper and acids are a bad combination (read: it will likely be ruined). With MS70 you have as mentioned a base - which is something like a strong soap - when you think base, think lye (drano). (Lye is actually what converts fats to soaps - a somewhat nasty chemical reaction, but the end result is waht we all use daily for cleanliness) That said, here's the what every newbie should keep in mind when he (or she) has the urge to dip (clean coins):
1. Water is the universal solvent - so add a little mild liquid soap to warm water, rinse what ever it is you want to clean - it will probably remove light oils, greases, and surface dirt or dust - It will NOT in any way affect toning. If after a mild soap & water rinse the coin looks better (dirt's gone) STOP - moving up the ladder (stronger cleaners may do more harm than good). Important - RINSE well, In fact if you miss this point, I'll repeat it RINSE well - dry carefull (pat don't rub - SOFT cotton towel - actually those really soft cotton baby diapers work very well.
2. Try alcohol - Alcohol is the other solvent that will clean & remove surface dirt and shouldn't harm the coin - after rinsing with alcohol, you may not even have to pat the coin dry as it evaporates quickly - won't change the toning and will remove any surface contaminates that are soluble in alcohol.
3. Acetone - very volitile - will remove PVC and other surface contaminents - be very careful with copper- As it evaporates, it may slightly alter the toning - will not affect the toning on gold or silver UNLESS the toning is an applied AT tone that is soluble in acetone - if that happens check with the doctor from whom you purchased that "original" toned coin. (WORK IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA - DEATH is a side effect if you breath too much of this stuff)
4. There's another product, called "Trik" or dissolve (Tri-chloro-floro-ethane?) - it will remove greases & PVC, I think this stuff has been banned - (WORK IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA - DEATH is a side effect if you breath too much of this stuff) - Does not affect toning (unless the AT variety).
5. Patroleum based solvents: Example - paint thinner, or gasoline - They will remove substances (oils & greases) that are soluble in - well - patroleum based solvents - if for example a coin has been "coated" with a clear protective layer of whatever? (Old time collectors used to shellac or lacquer they surfaces of their coins to prevent them from toning or spotting) - so occsionally you'll find coins that are "coated" with sometype of "protective" layer that you may want to remove. (WORK IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA - DEATH is a side effect if you breath too much of this stuff, also needless to say very flamable)
6. Lacquer Thinner - will remove lacquer, nail polish etc - don't have my college chem book, but I think this is also a Patroleum based solvent. (WORK IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA - DEATH is a side effect if you breath too much of this stuff, also needless to say very flamable).
Now in theory none of the above will affect real natural toning - but if whatever coin you're dipping has had the "toning" added by an intrepid doctor - the AT may "disappear" or even change color from solvents 2-6 - so if the coin may be AT, you might not want to mess with it, unless you really know what you're doing.
Dips that remove toning:
1. Virtually all acids will remove the toning on a coin - the acid "bonds" or reacts with the oxygen/sulfer atoms on the coin, and strips them off leaving bare metal - On heavily toned coins, contrary to what anyone has said, the coin will probably be severely impaired after an acid dip, because the heavy oxygen/sulfer atoms have formed a thick chemical layer on the coin, and removing them removes the luster - WHICH CAN NEVER BE RESTORED - the barbar half shown above is probably a good example of a heavily toned coin that was dipped - afterwards they all have a hazy look that you think will come off with another quick dip, but it will not, it'll only get worse. These coins tend to re-tone a fugly yellow brown color & look even worse - Failure to properly rinse will result in acid residue which will cause ugly ugly black spots on silver and will ultimately ruin the coin.
2. Strong bases - these may also remove toning or chemically react with the existing toning and change the look of the toning - not generally used or sold to clean coins, but I think MS 70 is a base that is stronger than ordinary soap - and I think it chemically reacts with some types of toning - I don't think it actually removes the toning as much as chemically reacts with it - IF there's a chemist here on the forum, maybe he or she can explain what happens when a strong base is used on copper, nickel or silver.
THe bottom line with dipping or cleaning coins is this:
IF you HAVE to do it, experiment with bullion type coins, or coins that have little value over face - Of the 1st 100 coins you dip, you'll probably make 60-80% worse not better (if you're really good you can ruin 100% of the coins you dip!) - remember what they look like immediately After you dip it, is not necessarily what it will look like a week or a month later - Just think of the slabbed coins that you've seen that look fugly and you swear that the PC or NG graders were blind when they graded that fugly coin - chances are it did NOT look like that when they graded it - removing the protective "toning" layer from a silver or copper coin leaves a coin that is highly reactive to atmospheric oxides, sulfides etc and unless the coin is completed "sealed" from any contact with atmospheric pollutants, IT WILL react with those substances and it may turn very UGLY -
Now all of the above said - there's probably 10% of coins that can be "improved" by dipping - knowing which 10% is the trick - with the other 90%, you're gonna have a lot of downside -
Have fun!
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
The trick is knowing which is which
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Also, I would have to totally disagree with the statement that a newbie cleaning coins = an 8 year old with a loaded gun. Come on. In fact, IMO, teaching a newbie the proper way to dip a coin would be a service, while anyone that would teach an 8 yr old how to load a handgun would be an idiot.
You are doing well, subject 15837. You are a good person.
I guess I am jaded against dipping because of what I collect. I have never seen a good looking Lincoln that has been dipped. I just can't encourage this practice.
<< <i>Also, I would have to totally disagree with the statement that a newbie cleaning coins = an 8 year old with a loaded gun. Come on. In fact, IMO, teaching a newbie the proper way to dip a coin would be a service, while anyone that would teach an 8 yr old how to load a handgun would be an idiot >>
the point is 2-fold:
(1) there are TONS of coins that have already been dipped, a virtually endless supply of brilliant blast-white dipped-to-the-max coins out there. so WHY add MORE? what is so wrong w/ simply buying 1 that's ALREADY DIPPED??? so the point is, so to say it's a service to teach a newbie the proper way to dip is just a totally wasteful service. why not teach a newbie how to GRADE instead??? that's a much more useful service. dipping is a worthless service to teach since w/ the huge population of dipped coins readily available, DIPPING IS JUST NOT NECESSARY.
(2) the hypothesis of this thread is that iwog basically claimed that by reading is quik-n-ez desc. on dipping the coin, any newbie can now do it risk-free. BALONEY. again, why not just NOT dip coins when you can more easily just BUY 1 already dipped? WHY risk it? as soon as a newbie thinks to himself, "yeah, i got the hang of it", the next thing he might dip could be a 1927-s quarter, & what if that time he screws up???
i just don't see WHY it's SOOOOOOOO great for newbies to learn how to dip coins, when they can more easily just buy some already dipped.
K S
perhaps you need to change your perspective about the purpose of what this thread has morphed into and forget about the eight year old child/gun analogy.
what we seem to be getting here are responses which are saying three things:
1. be selective about what you consider dipping.
2. there is a right way/wrong way to approach dipping coins, it isn't a cure all.
3. learn from others' experiences before you attempt anything.
past that, what's been posted is ranting. the choice is easy----do you want to be helpful or do you want to be right??
al h.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
The way I've always looked at it, coins that are dipped/cleaned make the coins that aren't worth more (to me).
Do I have coins that have been cleaned/dipped? Yes.
How many? I'm not sure.
I'm not saying it's wrong to clean a coin. Rather, I personally want an "original look", no matter what that may be. As long as "I" like it.
<< <i>Newmismatist - great post! In fact, thanks everyone for this thread. >>
Is that like a POTD award?
<< <i> I am a newbie collector, and to be honest I have only thought about dipping a coin due to fingerprints. The only thing that has stopped me is that they are low cost coins, and I could probably replace them really cheap - and then try dipping. Newmismatist/anyone - which solvent would you suggest works best for fingerprints? >>
Wellll - it depends on the following:
1. What's the Metal content of the coin. If its copper - forget it - probably nothing can be done.
2. How long the fingerprint has been on the coin? - If its been on for years - probably nothing can be done.
3. What's the value of the coin?
Why is #3 important? - Simple - removing a fingerprint can result in a coin that looks even worse - so if it's a high value coin, you may NOT want to start experimenting with dips to learn how to remove a fingerprint on that coin. - LOTS of downside - ask any experienced dealer - you'll hear lots of horror stories - fingerprints have oils & acids that over a long period of time will actually etch the surface of the coin - If you try & remove a fingerprint from a copper coin by dipping you will have a stripped and ugly copper coin that still has a very prominent fingerprint - net result is a Fugly BB coin that will probably never get graded by PCGS or NGC, and substantially net graded by ANACS. Silver - may or my not come off with jewelluster - BUT if the coin is toned for sure all the toning will come off & you may be left with a really ugly fingerprinted coin - but with silver you have a slightly better chance of having a OK looking coin - (& very small chance of a great looking coin) - you HAVE to know how much the coin has been "etched" by the fingerprint. BEFORE you even try this on a coin with any value, go buy some bullion coins - and find some fingerprinted ones & experiment to your hearts delight - you'll ruin a lot of coins, but they'll still be worth bullion so your only risk is whether silver goes up or down. Once you get a feel for which coins look better after being dipped (VERY FEW) then you'll have a least a feel for whether you should even try to dip a coin with numismatic value -
TO paraphrase someone else's post:
1. Some coins can be improved by dipping
2. Some people know how to dip coins
3. Some coins INITIALLY look better after dipping but turn UGLY later.
4. LOTS of coins are ruined by dipping
5. Many coins look worse after dipping
6. Some coins are slight better after dipping
7. A few coins are significantly improved by dipping
8. Knowing how to dip coins & which ones to dip & how to prevent them from turning ugly later can be a VERY expensive learning process
9. Some people never learn any of the above, but THINK they know what they're doing - (see #4 above).
I probably didn't answer your question because ... see #4 above
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
<< <i>hey DK
perhaps you need to change your perspective about the purpose of what this thread has morphed into and forget about the eight year old child/gun analogy.
what we seem to be getting here are responses which are saying three things:
1. be selective about what you consider dipping.
2. there is a right way/wrong way to approach dipping coins, it isn't a cure all.
3. learn from others' experiences before you attempt anything.
past that, what's been posted is ranting. the choice is easy----do you want to be helpful or do you want to be right?? >>
all find & dandy, i like your suggestion. can we just add:
#4. if you just have to have that dipped look, buy a coin that's already dipped - it's the safest way to guard against improper dipping
K S
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i><< I am a newbie collector, and to be honest I have only thought about dipping a coin due to fingerprints. The only thing that has stopped me is that they are low cost coins, and I could probably replace them really cheap - and then try dipping. Newmismatist/anyone - which solvent would you suggest works best for fingerprints? >> >>
<< <i>1. What's the Metal content of the coin. If its copper - forget it - probably nothing can be done. >>
<< <i>2. How long the fingerprint has been on the coin? - If its been on for years - probably nothing can be done. >>
<< <i>3. What's the value of the coin? >>
What about a mishandled, ie fingerprinted but otherwise unimpaired, proof gold? It can always have it's bullion value, but for the 'collector value' it would be more without the print. So, say a print that could have been in existence anwhere from 1989 to present....what is the best way to remove a print from proof gold?
With regards to concerns about newbies and dipping...for someone who really doesn't want to get a dipping education because of little intent to ever do it, but who does have a coin or three that might fit the above description (or maybe just a little milky haze on a silver modern commerative...) would you then suggest spending money on NCS? That would theoretically avoid a misapplication of whatever treatment is used, and supposedly the coins are evaluated as to whether or not they would even benefit from the service.
Inquiring minds (and new owners of fingerprinted gold) want to know! Thanks all for the interesting thread.
Cathy
<< <i>What about a mishandled, ie fingerprinted but otherwise unimpaired, proof gold? It can always have it's bullion value, but for the 'collector value' it would be more without the print. So, say a print that could have been in existence anwhere from 1989 to present....what is the best way to remove a print from proof gold? >>
1. Try hot soapy water first - the "fingerprint may simply be on the surface as gold is quite impervious to acids and oils - liquid soap might be the best but be careful the coin doesn't "squirt" right out of your hand and bang onto the floor or porcelin washbasin (put a couple of wash cloths in the bottom as pads - soapy coins can get very slippery.
Rinse well and PAT (do NOT rub) dry - Fingerprint gone? - you've passed your first test as a coin cleaner.
2. Not Gone? Now you have to resort to solvents - you can try acetone or alcohol - (but not together, either one or the other).
Rinse well and PAT (do NOT rub) dry - Fingerprint gone? - you've passed your 2nd test as a coin cleaner.
3. Not Gone? Now you have to resort to coin dips - For Proof gold - dilute jewelluster with 2 parts water for each part jewelluster (you can always add more jewelluster later) - quick dip - 2-3 seconds Rinse in a solution of 4 oz water & about a teaspoon of bicarbonate soda mixed into the water - bicarb is a mild base & will neutralize the acid - (make sure the bicarb is in the water and is a solution) then rinse again with lots of water PAT (do NOT rub) dry Fingerprint gone? - you've passed your 3rd test as a coin cleaner. and are attaining the status of an amatur coin cleaner - which is VERY dangerous because as the old saying goes "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
4. Not Gone? STOP!! just about anything you do from here on will likely cause damage to your coin. If this coin is worth melt value only continue as follows: - you can try full strength jewel-luster quick dip/water bicarb rinse then water rinse pat dry. fingerprint gone? Congratulations - you're now a novice "coin doctor" - with limited success in coin cleaning you've fixed your first "sick" coin. (Actually full strength jewelluster does not guarantee that you'll ruin the coin, but once you reach this stage there's always that psychological process that tells you that this little fingerprint is not going to defeat a very smart collector (you) and you keep right on trying to get rid of that offending little (*^*% - and before you know it you're at stage six below using power tools!
5. Still not gone? you're gonna have to potentially "ruin" this coin to fix it - try a very soft cotton "Q" tip dipped in jewelluster GENTLY dab the Q tip on the offending print - then real quick dip of the entire coin, rinse etc, etc. NOTE: There's probably a 75% chance you'll hairline the mirror proof surfaces of your coin - but hey if the "print's gotta go" then it's time to throw caution to the winds.
6. Still not gone? - Well now you're into "This damn thing's only worth melt anyway" and at this point whatever you do is gonna ruin the coin - stronger acids, mild abrasives, brillo, dremel, sort of in that order - coin's no longer a collectable coin anyway so what does it matter? - there's always silver polish or brasso to shine it up when your done - sound harsh? - you betcha - have collectors done this to coins? - ask the graders who BB them - unfortunate - but true!!
Cleaning proof gold has a lot of risk of ruining the coin - I'd sure recommend you try any of the above on something like a bullion proof coin that costs $5 or something like that 1st - a lot less downside!!
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
All this reminds me of saying where I work..."the enemy of good is better" trying for uneeded perfection can lead to disaster!
Fortunately I didn't pay too much over melt for the darn thing anyway!
Cathy