DONN- YOU ARE THE STATE QUARTER SET WINNER

wondercoin · June 30, 2003 1:21AM

in my book. A post I just made on another thread:

JC: Disappointing to say the least. Donn (now #2) is a "world class" gentleman. He was #1 basically 364/365 of the days. He will lose the #1 spot because a pop 1 coin he bought and WHICH WAS COMMITTED TO HIM earlier this month was taken away from him (i.e. seller could not follow through on "done deal"). Anyone who truly cares (and I know) can PM me for specifics. That coin made the difference between the #1 and #2 slots as Donn had a couple more coins to add today which he just recently bought.

Of course, Donn deserves to be #1. He built his set through hard work on a school teacher's salary. He had the coin which locked him into the #1 set TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM after he had a "done deal" on it. Donn's father invented the Pinewood Derby - anyone who has a kid in Boy Scouts knows what I am talking about. They honored Donn and his father last month here in CA, giving them them keys to the City. Donn is too much of a gentleman to make a "stink" about the coin that was taken from him and made him #2. Donn is not interested in hiring an attorney to fight for the coin that he closed a deal on. Donn is not interested in writing PCGS to claim "foul" in the contest. Knowing Donn, he will simply accept his #2 finish and move on. Donn is #1 in my book and in the eyes of several other state quarter collectors who know why he finished up #2.

Wondercoin

PS - I have no actual knowledge of who the new #1 set is - the set is totally hidden and the set owner's name is not familar to me. I also have no information that whomever the new #1 set owner is played an active role in disrupting Donn's "done deal" on the coin that should have made Donn #1. Finally, I am not upset with the seller who could not deliver the coin to Donn as he explained to me why"his hands were tied" and he is a good guy

dbldie55 · June 30, 2003 2:01AM

Why do I sense a Delaware coin was involved in this. (Could be wrong though) From what I have seen, Donn has built nearly his entire set himself (ie: finding and submitting the coins). That is a true top notch collector to me. Not only that, but one with a payday at the end of the rainbow if he chooses that path.

lincolnSence · June 30, 2003 2:09AM

Please explain why the seller is in a tough spot and can not deliver. Without this explanation I think many of the readers of this post are left confused.

wondercoin · June 30, 2003 2:15AM

LC: It really doesn't matter now. The big picture is Donn will finish #2 tonight, but, is truly #1 in the eyes of many of his peers, including myself. That is worth far more than any ribbon you can hang on your wall.

Wondercoin

Gerry · June 30, 2003 3:34AM

Is it too naïve to say that on this particular set, the true winner won’t be known until 2008 or 2009, and I wouldn’t bet against Donn. Of course, I wouldn’t bet against anyone else either.

wondercoin · June 30, 2003 3:42AM

Gerry: Point well taken. But, then, you might really also be saying that awards for sets should never be given out at all, as there may always be a new winner the following year. Why would 2008 or 2009 be determinative for state quarters. Just watch what happens in 2010

IMHO, Donn earned a first place finish this year based upon his work ethic, dedication to the series, purchase of a particular state quarter that would have made his set #1 had his "done deal" been honored and all the other intangible qualities that play no part in PCGS' raw rankings. I never said life was fair - I just said Donn is the State Quarter set winner this year in my eyes and the eyes of many of his peers.

Wondercoin

Gerry · June 30, 2003 4:08AM

IMHO: it’s not that 2008 or 2009 will be determinative; it’s just that until the set is fully issued, it seems that “who’s on first” should not be all that important. Even the Mets are ahead after a few innings once in a while.

BTW, the most impressive thing about Donn’s set, as I understand it, is that he hunts out and slabs most of these coins himself. I guess few, if any, compete with him on that level.

TWQG · June 30, 2003 4:12AM

Why is the new #1 set any less of an accomplishment and not worthy of our praise? Because we don't know his name?

wondercoin · June 30, 2003 4:25AM

Sean: Because, it is in my opinion. And, if that set wasn't "hidden" we could all see what coins are in the set. Hopefully, "Donn's coin" wouldn't be in there.

Wondercoin

TWQG · June 30, 2003 8:21AM

As a Pinewood Derby champ, I'm pulling for the "eye". I sense there is 'a rest of the story' to 'Donn's coin' that I must be missing.

Whew, this registry stuff is fierce.

Stooge · June 30, 2003 8:27AM

Personally I think that Donn is #1 also. I even quote him in my description. It is the thrill of the hunt, and Donn is a hunter. I spoke to him in a few e-mails and he stated that he went through something like 125 rolls of Indiana-D's just to get that low pop MS68. I would have totally given up LONG BEFORE that. Thats why my set is #21 on the list and not #2.

Way to go Donn, keep up the fantastic work!

Paul.

egsantos · June 30, 2003 8:41AM

One more case to support my suggestion made a few months ago.
If someone desire include a set in the registry, it should be open. PCGS can't allow the condition of hide composition.
If don't want to show, keep in the safe box and not register it.
IMHO
Edson

wondercoin · June 30, 2003 9:09AM

Edson: I couldn't agree with you more. Hiding a set is fine, but, don't expect to get the ribbon for #1 with a hidden set. If the #1 State Quarter set wasn't totally hidden, we could all see if "Donn's coin" ended up there and took first place away from Donn. Do you all see how near perfect Donn's set is - including a couple upgrades he didn't put in yet. For this new #1 set to be "better", the argument that hiding a set is needed so no one knows what is in it is "BS" IMHO. The sets are near perfect to begin with.

AGAIN, LIFE IS NOT FAIR. I just hate to see the "hunter" struck down by "friendly fire".

Wondercoin

Gerry · June 30, 2003 9:28AM

I'm intrigued by the mathematics (arithmetic) of this. Suppose this was the 1999P Conn in ms69 that Donn was trying to track down a couple of months ago. That's worth .04 in the average. I guess if he rather than the other set had been able to get the coin, that would put him at 68.04 and the other set at 68.08; then if Donn has upgrades for two coins from 2000 or 2001, he would raise his average to 68.08. In that case, it would be a tie. Of course, if Donn had upgrades for 3 coins plus the hypothetical CT-P he would be at 68.10 and win. Hmmm.

wondercoin · June 30, 2003 9:39AM

"Of course, if Donn had upgrades for 3 coins plus the hypothetical CT-P he would be at 68.10 and win. Hmmm. "

Gerry: Yes, he would. And he would have even a higher score if those upgrades were 1999 related upgrades.

Hardly matters now.

Wondercoin

Datentype · June 30, 2003 9:50AM

Donn, I'm gonna make sure that you're #1 next year!

dbldie55 · June 30, 2003 9:55AM

<< <i>Mitch I just checked the registry and it shows Donn in 1st place am I mistaken? >>

Something has changed since this morning. Interesting to say the least. One can only wonder.

Congrats to Donn (eye) for a fabulous set.

wondercoin · June 30, 2003 10:02AM

Dbldie55: We may have just witnessed one of the most incredible class acts seen in Registry history? Yes, to the critics, these are just MS State quarters. To Donn ("eye" from our boards they mean a whole lot more). If that #1 set was pulled by its owner in recognition of Donn's achivements, I tip my hat to a very classy gentleman

Wondercoin

jcping · June 30, 2003 1:12PM

Amazing! does the guy plea guilty this afternoon

RegistryCoin · June 30, 2003 6:57PM

I think PCGS/BJ requires that for a #1 set to be recognized, it cannot be "hidden". Therefore, probably the (brief and former) #1 either refused to "open" his set, or pulled it for "another" reason. Congrats Donn!!!

egsantos · June 30, 2003 7:25PM

Mitch,
Nice idea in complementation of mine. Independent of what's happened, is just create a rule, as looking was informally created, that the 1st. place set cannot be "hidden" to be candidate to win the ribbon.
In the end of the day, big Congrats to Donn.

Edson

jcping · June 30, 2003 7:46PM

We shall see whether the rule applies to everyone or not. The best of the grand-daddy set is still un-opened the set.

RegistryCoin · June 30, 2003 7:59PM

That is interesting jcping, as last year I was contacted by BJ to let me know that if I didn't "open" my set(s), they would not receive an award.

eisq222 · June 30, 2003 8:50PM

I don't want to take anything away from Donn,but the current number one set must be quite impressive.I'm sure from this point forward,this will be a long term battle ' May the hunter prevail '

pontiacinf · June 30, 2003 11:16PM

the set was pulled because its not a work in progress, but simple inventory that could be listed while in hand.

or maybe...

wondercoin · July 1, 2003 12:16AM

"I think PCGS/BJ requires that for a #1 set to be recognized, it cannot be "hidden". Therefore, probably the (brief and former) #1 either refused to "open" his set, or pulled it for "another" reason. Congrats Donn!!!"

Steve: I understand your comment that you might not be able to win the #1 set ribbon with a closed set, but, that does not mean CU deletes your set entirely as if it never existed - right (which is what happened here)?

I could very well be wrong, but, my guess would be that particular collector pulled his set, coin by coin, after reading this thread and deciding to bow out to Donn, one of the most deserving Registry participants in the 7,000 set field. Again, I could be totally wrong because I personally have not seen this type of "sportsmanship" for years, since Registrycoin refused to add a silver MS quarter upgrade to his set which may have led to his set surpassing the R. Green set as All-Time #1 purely out of respect for the accomplishments of R. Green.

No doubt, Donn has been "put on notice" for things to come next year and thereafter. This school teacher better take on some extra Summer tutoring jobs to raise a few extra bucks as he is going to need them - he is now in the "Shark tank"

Wondercoin

Datentype · July 1, 2003 1:14AM

For some extra quarter $ this Summer, maybe Donn can open up one of those relaxing mud pits like they have up there in Calistoga or possibly start some vines for the 50 State Quarter Brand of Vino - hmm not a bad idea if you could clear it from the Mint.

lincolnSence · July 1, 2003 2:34AM

There are numerous sets (lincolns alone) that are hidden and are 2002 winners. So who ever started this point should get there facts straight.

I also thought (because I spoke to BJ on this very point) that when you delete a set that was in the top 5 spots it would remain there (as long as it qualified). So no matter what the set that got pulled should have STILL been listed as number one. The owner must have petitioned PCGS to remove it. I would suggest that this is a problem. PCGS can not put up sets without real owners and delete sets that do have real owners.

I also feel Gerry was on to something. I myself questioned the numbers and find that there was NO WAY the math worked out for Donn. He would ALWAYS have been number 2 this year.

Its a great effort on Donn's part, but all the tactics and dust created around this I for one find has diminished the registry a bit.

Lets all hope for a better new year.

braddick · July 1, 2003 3:02AM

Mitch- Why would the "number one" set owner need to pull his complete set, "coin by coin" to bow out of the race and award Donn the ribbon? It would seem, as close as the two sets are competitively, he would only need to pull a couple coins out and could leave all the rest to bump his set down a notch or two.
Why shut down the complete set?

I would think there are other motivators at work here.

clackamas · July 1, 2003 3:06AM

If the set has to be "Open" to the public how come Stewart Blay got the award last year? He never lets but just the faintest information out about his set. Is there a double standard?

wondercoin · July 1, 2003 3:13AM

LC: With all due respect, you need to read more carefully. I mentioned that Donn had several recent upgrades that he had not put in his set yet. There was no compelling reason to do so, as he was #1 anyway by quite a wide margin. You'll see what those coins are, when they get entered in the ordinary course of Donn's entries later this month.

Finally, if you suggest this "phantom set" that was deleted from #1 didn't really exist anyway or whatever other "voodoo" you want to place on this, then more the reason Donn deserved to be #1. I chose to believe the set was deleted simply by a decision of its owner - 100% permissible. You comments about the registry being "diminished" as a result of whatever occurred is utterly rediculous.

Wondercoin

eisq222 · July 1, 2003 3:13AM

Take a look at number 32 Jack Ackerman 67.88 98% 66.52.This may be a future contender for the number 1 spot.

wondercoin · July 1, 2003 3:17AM

Mitch- Why would the "number one" set owner need to pull his complete set, "coin by coin"

Pat: I was told by a forum member that is the only way to have a set entirely deleted where it does not continue to show up as as an All-Time best retired set, which perhaps that owner did not want to show. Is this true? Wondercoin

egsantos · July 1, 2003 3:29AM

Take a look in "number one" Kennedy Proof. Registered in the last moment and hidden.

Edson

braddick · July 1, 2003 3:37AM

<< <i>Mitch- Why would the "number one" set owner need to pull his complete set, "coin by coin"

Pat: I was told by a forum member that is the only way to have a set entirely deleted where it does not continue to show up as as an All-Time best retired set, which perhaps that owner did not want to show. Is this true? Wondercoin >>

Ah, good point. Yes, I believe that is true. I hadn't thought of that. If a set is simply "deleted" it'll still remain in the all-time top five. It does require a coin by coin pull to remove it completely (I think).
Good enough. Thanks for the answer. Always learning!

lincolnSence · July 1, 2003 3:49AM

Sorry all. I'm not buying this story. I won't say it can't happen, but the thought that someone would claw their way to the top of the registry coin by coin, then screw someone out of a coin to get the final spot cemented, but because of this thread, pull their set (and of course know exactly how to do this so as to completely remove him/herself from the top 5 all time leaders) just plain smells of you know what.

There is a story here that Mitch obviously does not want told and I have no problem with that. But in all honesty Mitch, you should have just commented that its to bad Donn got clipped in the final days after working so hard up to this point. You created to much out of the story you didn't really want to tell.

BTW - if the owner of the old best set want to sell the whole set to me, please send me a PM.

wondercoin · July 1, 2003 4:02AM

LC: I frankly don't give a rat's arz what you believe. I know nothing more than I have posted here. I don't play games here on the boards like you obviously do with your mean spirited posts. I respect Donn a hellava lot as a dedicated collector, which is why I posted this thread in the first place. Could you do me a favor and continue your McCarthy "witch hunt" elsewhere.

Wondercoin

Stooge · July 1, 2003 4:12AM

This is like "Days of our coin collecting lives" on this subject.

It is more then obvious that something is a miss. The #1 spot disappears because (of this thread?) he wants Donn to have the #1 spot, then I just now checked the list and Ackerman, whos set hasn't been updated in about a year and sat at 75% the whole time, decides to up-grade to 98% which, if I wonder where it would be if it was 100%. Also a new set was listed, no less at #2 (Douglas Rall) with a nice Delaware-D MS68 POP 1/0, to also provide Donn with the #1 set....wow, I smell something!!!

I'm just pointing out what I see, and yes, I havn't warpped my brain trying to do the math on this one. Just like everyone else, I like to see nice sets put together, and if Donn wins/won, then thats better, since he built his set almost entirely himself.

Paul.

TWQG · July 1, 2003 4:13AM

I'm curious why the original seller of "Donn's coin" could not honor the done deal.

eisq222 · July 1, 2003 4:20AM

GOOD POST PAUL.I saw the same thing you did.

wondercoin · July 1, 2003 4:27AM

Stooge: I just saw Doug's new set in the registry. Surprising why the set was entered the day after the Registry deadline? Maybe just a coincidence? I also see this updated Ackerman set. I have no idea what that set is all about, as it is hidden. Incidently, the DEL(d) coin had nothing to do with anything - neat coin that Doug picked up though

The events of the past day are wild, to say the least. Again, my best guess is the top set was deleted in recognition of Donn's achievments thus far, but, I acknowledge there might be another possibility. It would be nice to think that is why the hidden set was pulled anyway.

Wondercoin

Stooge · July 1, 2003 4:38AM

Next question.

Now will this mystery set re-appear now that the deadline has expired?

Paul.

MoneyLA · July 1, 2003 5:00AM

I also agree that #1 sets should be open. Frankly, I think every set registered should be open. What's the point of registering a "closed" set? cheers, alan mendelson

Stooge · July 1, 2003 5:02AM

Oh ya, it just gets better.

All this talk about not being able to receive an award with your set "closed" to public viewing, well I just went to the Proof Statehood Quarters, and the "Plastic collection" is now #1 with a closed set. He/she was the 2002 award winner!!!

Paul.

BJ · July 1, 2003 11:15AM

Let me set the record straight. You can have closed set and win either a "Best of the Registry" certificate or one of the top 15 plaque awards. You cannot have a closed set and be a Hall of Fame inductee.

On another subject, if you delete coins from a current set, those coins are deleted from the ATF set as well. Therefore, if you intend to retire your set, but still wish it to remain intact in ATF, you should delete your entire current set. Note, however, that once you retire a set, those specific certification numbers cannot be re-entered in the registry by you.

Finally, the Registry just went over 7,000 sets!

andy007 · July 1, 2003 12:15PM

sounds like some people are collecting plaques and ego-stroking awards, not coins. Hmmm, ok, I still enjoy my coins for their beauty and history, to each their own I guess.

RegistryCoin · July 1, 2003 5:05PM

Thank you, BJ!

braddick · July 1, 2003 8:27PM

<< <i>sounds like some people are collecting plaques and ego-stroking awards, not coins. Hmmm, ok, I still enjoy my coins for their beauty and history, to each their own I guess. >>

Or, just thinking outside the box here, why not BOTH endevours?

DAM · July 1, 2003 9:01PM

It seems in addition to the quarterly bickering over selling coins on the Registry Forum, we now have the annual squabbling over what constitutes a valid first place winner in the Registry.

Is anyone ever happy about anything?

andy007 · July 2, 2003 9:37AM

<< <i>Or, just thinking outside the box here, why not BOTH endevours? >>

I guess if that is how some people gain confidence in themselves it's ok, just a bit strange to me. Personally, I don't feel the need to be able to proclaim, Yea, I finally finished first in something. Coin collecting to me is about history and rarity, not an ego-stroking endeavor.

Datentype · July 2, 2003 10:50AM

There are winners and losers in life and Donn is a winner!

DONN- YOU ARE THE STATE QUARTER SET WINNER

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