The Draped Bust Halves: A great series of early Americana
Baley
Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hello everyone, just one more collection to share, this time a group of circulated Draped Bust halves, these coins have stories to tell if you just listen to them. These coins were made to be spent, and spent they were, for years. They did not get specially minted for collectors, they did not get put in an airtight case and put in someone's safe. They went out and worked and worked hard. They circulated when the country was young and the upstart Americans were proud of their new country minting it's own money, and these coins traded alongside the English, French, and Spanish colonial money that was more common at the time, but they held up, and did their jobs. Sometimes a shopkeeper or other citizen would do a "test mark" on the coin; new and different coins were scratched to test for silver plating or a base metal alloy, because real silver gives a certain luster when scratched that the trained eye knows what it looks like. Circulating many years, these coins somehow escaped being gouged, holed, bent, folded, spindled, or mutilated, melted for silver or lost forever, but they did get their bumps and bruises doing their jobs, and of course became "crusty" with tarnish. Eventually they became obsolete and were retired, some with the dirt and sweat still on them, and taken out of change and put into collections. Then a new danger emerged: would it get cleaned or otherwise abused? might someone try to scratch off a spot with a needle? Wouldn't it look better "shined up"? Thank goodness, no, they wouldn't
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
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I don't have an 1802 yet, and I need to take better pics of these 1803 "small 3" and "large 3" coins,
"original, no?"
Here's a nice 1805/4, This is a fairly tough coin in VF or higher
NTC has it at 35, which might be a little high but in my opinion not more than 5 or possibly 10 points.
Paid twenty money
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
We ARE watching you.
Here are a couple of 1806 coins with a few problems like having been "warshed off" sometime in the past 198 years, but they're still presentable examples of the 1806 "pointed top 6" coins, the first with no stem through claw on the reverse, the other with the stem through the claw. These coins are in a condition that it's ok to handle them, which is kind of fun at least. both of these coins look better than these pics, will make some new ones soon..
Stman has an absolutely astounding 1806, the same variety as the above no-stem coin, in choice AU!
maybe he'll show it for us...
anyway, here's a closeup of that PCGS 1807, this coin is an O.102, a fairly common variety:
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
that pcgs 1807 was from ebay and went for a premium price.
speaking of premium, here's the very rare 1807 O.115:
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
My next thought turns to history. A 200 year old coin....how many owners? All the wars, conflicts, social changes, etc. in that period. Want to feel even more insignificant? Try visiting some castles in Europe or collecting some of the darkside. SUddenly our vinyl disk or beanie baby collection doesn't seem to be as "collectible".
This is what coin collecting is all about for me.
(Prior to 1834, US gold coins didn't circulate because they were worth more as bullion than they were as coins. As a result, the half dollar was the largest US denomination that existed in substnatial quantities, so they were used extensively for bank reserves and for payments by the Federal government.)
Check out the Southern Gold Society
I don't have a chopmarked draped bust half yet, but this capped bust made it to China and back.
Obscurum per obscurius
Imagine, that's what someone's pocket change looked like in 1815 (well...maybe a little more luster and detail
Another very nice line up of historic coins.
Nice find!
I've never seen any chopmarked coins other than Trade Dollars and 8 reales pieces.
What other chopmarked coins have you seen?
Have you ever seen another chopmarked Bust half?
Check out the Southern Gold Society
In 1807 the coins most in demand were half dollars and half eagles. We have to remember that the Mint only struck coins from depositors' bullion in the denominations they requested, so they wouldn't strike denominations unless they had orders for them. I thought I'd add this in case some were wondering why no half dimes were struck between 1805 and 1829.
Obscurum per obscurius
there's absolutely nothing wrong with those half dollars. the thing is, with all the focus on the obverse, the more significant reverse is overlooked. who amongst us will run with the hunt and tell me what's significantly different about the reverse design elements of our major circulating coins in the early 1800's and the historical significance and meaning behind it??
al h.
don't mess with the US!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
that's close enough!! the right foot or right hand is always symbolic of primary thought. it's symbolism that pre-dates historical record and can be found repeatedly in the bible, one of those things that we all subconciously are aware. if you pay attention to our coins you'll recognize different types of spiritual symbolism that were important and known by the Founding Fathers.
after we broke from England and began minting our own circulating coins, it was important to project a message of power and independence to the world where they would be circulating. funny isn't it, that coins used to actually do that!! at the end of the 1700's there was still no solid peace on the American continent and we used our coins to assure any who might care to pay attention that we had the will to fight and weren't afraid to do so. that became primary and peace became the alternative.
it's rather ironic that shortly after we relaxed that posture, reflected in a design change in the contents of the eagle's talons, we went to war with the Brits again. with the upcoming commem's and nickel design change which is very relevant to that time period, i'd like to see that posture again reaffirmed to a troubled world. my hope would be that they'd notice it and take heed.
al h.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
those are probably a bit to obvious. while coins are rife with spiritual symbolism, it generally takes on a more subtle approach in order for the designers to convey an acceptable message which is still aestetically pleasing to the masses. what you've suggested seems more in line with the Marshall Island type of private mint issues.
it's interesting to note that some beautiful and symbolic designs began shortly after or immediately preceeding a major conflict, perhaps a reflection of the countries mood at that particular juncture of time. after the Civil War we find two new designs with a prominent shield under the motto "In God We Trust" which is easily understood. on the verge of WWI we have the SLQ and Walker, both very wonderfully designed. afterwards, we began the Peace Dollar, which has a lot going on with the Eagle reverse, perched on a mountaintop above the word Peace, holding the olive branch in both feet and facing the rising sun!!!
al h.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
i LUUUUUUVVVVVVVVVV draped-bust coins!!!
K S
i remember looking at some half dollars at an auction, holdered, and the O # was dictated by the edge lettering. it made it take a bit longer to ID.
al h.
It's also interesting to note that the reverse of the Peace dollar originally pictured the eagle clasping broken arrows to symbolize the end of the War. Enough objected to it as meaning defeat that the design was switched to an olive branch. I don't know why Zerbe even tried to get his Peace coin through Congress since the Mint could have changed the design at will. The Morgan design had been used for over 25 years, so the Mint could have changed the design without Congressional approval and still been in compliance with the Mint Act of September 26, 1890. The latest change to the Jefferson nickel is an the same thing-- if you get Congress involved, expect for the design change to stall and drag on unnecessarily.
as far as the right hand/left hand thing. I know in Japan if you store a sword with the hilt on the right you are considered warring, while the hilt on the left is peaceful (you would have to pick up the sword with your left and then move it to your right).
I tried to explain that to the guard at the Huntington Library because the swords in the Japanese house are displayed blade down with handles to the right (he just gave me a blank look).
Obscurum per obscurius
do you have a picture of that Peace Dollar pattern? sounds like an interesting design. aside from that, were the other design elements the same as what was eventually used??
al h.
K S
I haven't seen any evidence that the design pattern was actually struck.
Here's what Breen says in his encyclopedia:
Six days after the [Fine Arts] Commission had approved his sketches, Francisci submitted preliminary relief models, whose rev. showed an eagle breaking a sword, for disarmament. Isaiah 2:4. This device was publicized on Dec. 19, the same day the Commission approved his models-- only to meet with howls of raging protest from hawkish officials: They insisted that this design would be interpreted as defeat rather than as negotiated peace! Because of these objections, the Mint Bureau ordered changes, and Mint Engraver George Morgan (in the first of a series of alterations done without Francisci's consent) remodeled the eagle, minus sword or arrows but with an olive branch, atop an isolated mountain peak inscribed PEACE, in lettering of a style different from that anywhere on the coin. p. 460.
Obscurum per obscurius
At first glance it looks like a plugged hole, but it's actually a dent (probably cause by someone striking it with the head of a primitive nail). You may run across bust halves with small "x"s scratched on them, cuts, or drill marks on them. That was the easiest way for people to make sure they weren't plated counterfeits.
Obscurum per obscurius
<< <i>The Morgan design had been used for over 25 years, so the Mint could have changed the design without Congressional approval and still been in compliance with the Mint Act of September 26, 1890. >>
No, the Act of Sept 26th, 1890 does NOT give the mint the power to change the design. The Mint never has the power to change the design. That power rests either with Congress, or under the terms of the Act of September 26, 1890, after 25 years the Secretary of the Treasury, not the mint, has the power to unilaterally change the design. The one exception to this may be that the Director of the Mint does have the power to decide what the design on the bullion coins will be. At least that is what Deihl claimed gave him the power to do the gold Sac. It was done on a 1/2 oz gold planchet and Deihl claimed that he had the right to change the bullion coin designs under the law, so he could put the Sac on the 1/2 gold without Congressional approval.
shirohniichan, see those scratches in the left obv field, and the old deep one on the rev, along with the "pecks" i think these types of marks are test marks, well the obv might be graffitti, sometimes it's hard to tell, but either way i think the marks were made not too long after the coins were minted, maybe within the first decade or 2.
sometimes, if it's a rare variety, and/or if the coin is still overall attractive even with these battle scars, or sometimes both, as in this case of an R4- R5 coin like this one, I'll forgive a few bumps and bruises.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Thanks for setting me straight. I still think it would have been much quicker for Zerbe to convince the Secretary of the Treasury to approve a new design than to try to get enough votes in Congress.
Obscurum per obscurius
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Just think about who could have actually used them.
isn't that a fasciniting thing to imagine about? you just don't get that sense of wonder with modern proofs, most of which have never even been spent once! but, new coins sure are shiny, arent they?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
"I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling."
I know! Lucybop among others prefers Fanklins [sic] to these pretty ladies
Anyway, I know some of you have some nice Draped and Capped bust halves,
how about showing off your early type coins?
This just in:
dipped, but that's ok, it's cracked and put in the album now. maybe in a decade or three it'll be "original" again
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Capped Bust Half Series
Capped Bust Half Dime Series
Every one of them is nice and crusty!
<< <i>Anyway, I know some of you have some nice Draped and Capped bust halves,
how about showing off your early type coins?
I'm in that type of mood >>
You got it!
I just got this Cap Bust Half a couple days ago.
<< <i>Hello everyone, just one more collection to share, this time a group of circulated Draped Bust halves, these coins have stories to tell if you just listen to them. These coins were made to be spent, and spent they were, for years. They did not get specially minted for collectors, they did not get put in an airtight case and put in someone's safe. They worked and worked hard. ] >>
You have some nice circulated coins that served their function in commerce.
However, I understand many bust halves sat in bank vaults for years to establish a bank's "reserve". There were no silver dollars coined after 1803 (yeah, I didn't count the clandestine 1804s), gold coins were uncommon, so the halves were best suited for this purpose. That's why there are so many mint state examples extant, far more than other bust silver coinage denomination. The bank storage is somewhat analogous to the Treasury Dept. hoards of silver dollars that culminated in the GSA sales. Lucky for us collectors!!
Here are some pictures of the 3 sides of this coin (the third side pic not possible until the coin was "cracked out" of the slab it came in (VG)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
true enough, major, as a couple others have noted. More so the capped than the draped coins.
This pair was probably in circulation for at least a little while...
the small and large 3 coins, I'm guessing these qualify as "original"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>However, I understand many bust halves sat in bank vaults for years to establish a bank's "reserve". >>
True, and many bags of capped bust halves came to light still being used as reserves during the bank holiday of 1933!
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
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