Home U.S. Coin Forum

What 's so special about SMS coins?

Serious question. I 'm asking 'cause I don 't know. Thanks.

Comments

  • Special mint sets issued 1965-1967, if I'm not mistaken. No proof sets made during those years so the mint made SMS sets. They're deeper than a business strike but not quite as deep or mirrored as a proof coin. I have a 1966 SMS Cent in MS68 RD. Wish it was cameo!
  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146
    the 65-67 sets are sorta like a hybrid strike I think. They,re not exactly Proof coins,but they were slightly
    better struck than the normal business strikes.

    I guess thats what makes them `speciial`? Not exactly sure myself.

  • ERER Posts: 7,345
    Anyone with pics of SMS vs. PR vs. business strike coins for comparison?
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are a lot of differences in the way the mint makes and issues coins. Generally
    it is true that circulation strikes are made on standard planchets with a single strike.
    Proof coins are multi strikes by polished dies on polished planchets.

    The SMS dies did recieve some of the steps that proof dies recieve. The fields are
    very flat which is not typical for circulation issues. The SMS's were struck at higher
    pressure than circulation strikes (likely higher than most proofs). These coins were
    then specially handled including being washed and dried. The SMS coins almost always
    look far superior than even the best circulation strikes. Many of them are virtually in-
    distinguishable from proofs. The mint did a lot of experimenting with dies and planchets
    for these sets starting with the 1964. There were at least some polished clad planchets
    used in these sets.

    They were called "special" by the mint just to differentiate them from the other mint sets
    they had been making for years but they truly were special.

    These sets were virtually ignored even by modern collectors until the last few years. Col-
    lectors who like the proof sets considered these coins too inferior to be proof and those
    who collect mint sets found them to be too special, too proofy. There were only a few peo-
    ple with any interest in them and mostly they were looking for frosted coins. While all these
    coins appear frosted, some are exceedingly rare with just a few known examples.

    Mintages of the sets was much lower than the proof sets of preceeding and subsequent
    years. Attrition has been extremely high due to many years of low prices resulting from
    anemic demand.
    Tempus fugit.
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500
    check out auctions at heritage or teletrade - they have them all in their historys of past auctions - can compare copper, nickel, silverclad


    the government in 1964? decided too many coin collectors where hoarding their coins they minted for circulation - so they did away with proof sets and did away with mintmarks for 3 years to discourage this - they must have decided to change their policy and charge lots more so they could make LOTS of money selling proof and mint sets to collectors
  • Why would the government frown on hoarding coins ? Isn't taking money out of circulation like a interest free loan to the go'vt ? If it costs 3 cents to make a quarter and you put it away, they keep the rest. Joe
  • DanCDanC Posts: 1,189
    They're exceptionally rare in "prooflike" condition as well. Very prone to hairlining, and crappy contrast.

    If you find a DCAM - any denomination, you're in the $$$ image
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500
    in early 60's silver value starting going up - the franklin and kennedy silver halves have over 1/3 oz of silver - so raw materials cost more than value if silver got more than $1.50/oz

    I am not positive of those numbers but you get the idea

    the same thing happened in the early 1980's with the value of copper and pennies
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    SMS coins are single-struck on unburnished planchets using dies that were not prepared as well or replaced as frequently as proof dies, and the coins were not individually handled after production like proof coins. The 65 and 66 sets were really almost business strikes, and the 65s were released very late in the year, shortly before the 66 sets. The 67 sets more closely resemble modern proofs, and are more common with cameo. The cameo 65 and 66 coins were produced very early in the die life. Finding coins from new dies well struck on good planchets that don't have contact marks and exhibit deep cameo is VERY difficult. Coins that exhibit some cameo are relatively common, but finding coins that approach "MODERN PROOF" standards has proven a near impossibility. Many have looked for these obviously well preserved coins for almost 40 years, and only a handful have surfaced. Below is a pic of my best find.

    image
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DHeath; I was hoping you'd post that coin. That is a very special SMS.

    Joeyuk; In 1964 the US was having a severe coin shortage because of people
    hoarding silver coin for the metallic value, and the rapid growth in the use of vend-
    ing machines. There was also a very vibrant and robust segment of coin collecting
    that was buying and selling rolls and bags of current and recent date coins. This
    was a booming market at the time and got a lot of attention at a very bad time. Con-
    gress blamed coin collectors for the shortage and a bill was introduced to ban coin
    collecting. Also a date freeze was instituted which mandated the use of the 1964
    date indefinitely and these coins were actually produced well into 1965. Then the
    Coin act of 1965 was passed which changed the metal in the coins and the date, but
    did not lift the date freeze. It originally appeared that the 1965 date would last for-
    ever. In addition mintmarks were removed. Perhaps the biggest thing they did to
    discourage coin collectors wasn't even intentional. In order to get coins out in greater
    number they began overusing the dies. The new cu/ni clad was much harder than the
    silver and wore the dies out much faster yet they just kept using them. Most of the coins
    were very unattractive and collectors didn't need an act of Congress not to collect them.

    Mint set and proof set production were both stopped. The mint issued a warning in '65
    that if people collected these coins they'd maintain the 1965 date forever. It was well
    into 1967 before the mint returned to normal dating and announced that there was no
    evidence of any hording in the new coins so mint marks and normal dating would be re-
    stored.

    In the early days there was no reason even for contrarians to be interested in the new coins.
    The mint and fed would put all the coins into storage haphazardly so that bags of brand new
    coin would sit undisturbed for years and then be released. In 1972 they began rotating coins
    in storage as a result of a changeover to FIFO accounting practices and by 1975 all older coin
    had been released and would never again sit in storage for protracted periods.

    There was something of an outcry when mint and proof set production was halted. While this
    came mainly from the proof set collectors there were people who had collected mint sets for
    many years. To appease these people the SMS's were invented. Most of the experimentation
    with these coins was probably done between the summer of '65 and the autumn of '66. The '64
    coins were still in production until Nov '65. The official reason for the issuance of the SMS's was
    that the mint was too busy to bother with mint and proof set production.

    There are significant numbers of trial runs of various methods to make these coins. Apparently
    all except the '64's were issued as regular SMS's.



    last two paragraphs added
    Tempus fugit.
  • That is one remarkable coin dheath.
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    CK,

    This one's for you. MS67 Ucam NGC, MS67 Dcam PCGS. image

    image
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • mnmcoinmnmcoin Posts: 2,165
    SMS coin are one of my favorite coins...

    Regular business strike Jefferson Nickel-1956 P

    Regular proof struck Jeffeson Nickel-1969 S

    SMS issue with truly rare Deep Cameo surfaces-1967sms

    That sms is not a typical occurance for sms coins, I would say less than on tenth of on percent of the sms coins issued look like that.

    Here is a typical sms issue...1966 sms Lincoln-MS67RD

    hope this helps

    morris <><
    "Repent, for the kindom of heaven is at hand."
    ** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
    Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.

    ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
    28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
    TEMECULA, CA 92590
    (951) 757-0334

    www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DHeath; Wow! Again. This must be a new one.










    addressed
    Tempus fugit.
  • wingedlibertywingedliberty Posts: 4,805 ✭✭✭
    Yes, this is my kind of thread.
    Superb coins and info.

    Brian.
  • CaseyCasey Posts: 1,502 ✭✭
    Cladking, great post on what was going on in the 60s. I had no idea of this history.

    Casey
  • ERER Posts: 7,345
    Thank you guys. Some beautiful coins!

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file