T206 Portrait vs. Action

dstudeba

Flipping through my new "200 best cards in the Hobby" book yesterday I noticed that it said the portraits are more desirable than the action shots for the players with multiple cards due to their beauty. Personally I don't find the portrait shots very interesting, and some I think are ugly (most notably Cy Young looks like the kid from 'King of the Hill" in his portrait). Am I missing something?

Also for those with a bit of time, I was thinking about bidding on an e106 Mathewson** because I love the pose and color. However I would have to sell my T206 dark cap Mathewson to fund it. Anyone have reasons I should or shouldn't do it?

**edited earlier misinformation that marc caught
-------------------

looking for Wilson Franks

goodriddance189

love that Mathewson, even though he looks like hes wearing makeup

and i think for the most part, the t206 action shots are much better looking than posed portraits

mikeschmidt

A few thoughts:

1) You refer to the card as an E107 Mathewson. I believe you meant E106. An E107 Mathewson card would be worth thousands, give or take.

2) It does not sound like your T-206 Portrait Mathewson card is in above EX/MT shape. As such, I would say that it is very easy to replace that T-206 card in the future given enough money. Whether the card will go up or down in value, it is hard to say. But the bottom line is that, despite being valued highly, it is not an exceedingly difficult card to find in a condition to replace the one you own.

3) The E-106 Mathewson card, on the other hand, is exceedingly difficult to find. Though it is not the hardest of the E* series, and though there are definitely other E* Mathewson cards that are more difficult, the E-106 card is certainly among the more difficult to find, overall. It is probably right smack in the middle of the E* series cards in terms of difficulty in finding.

4) Aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder. Many prefer the Portrait cards for whatever reason. I, too, prefer the action cards. Most notably, the E92 Rebel Oakes is a favorite of mine. Also, the 1914 Cracker Jack Mathewson card is one of the coolest ever produced. As such, it is the preference of each collector. One of the common complaints on this E-106 card is the thick smattering of lipstick that Christy is often wearning in his cards. I mean, honestly, I've seen hookers who are more modest with their lipstick than Mathewson appears to be in this picture. To each their own.

At the end of the day -- collect what you like. You will probably sell some really neat cards during your collecting years -- and replace them with cards you find even cooler and more desirable. To each their own -- as long as you are having fun (and not selling off your kids in order to finance it), no one will tell you what to do!

goodriddance189

how much does the Oakes card go for? thats awesome

mrc32

I have to think that E-series cards are at thier peak right now. I might hold off....but who knows what the future holds

helionaut

For T-206s, I'd have to agree that, historically, there is a preference for portraits over action shots as far as price guides go, and price seems to drive demand which drives prices and on and on. Sometimes it's fairly obvious, to me, anyway, why a portrait would be preferred. If you look at the Hal Chase cards, the action shot of him throwing the ball just seems much less desirable than the blue or pink portraits. However, others aren't so clear. Christy Mathewson's no-cap portrait with the lovely orange pastel background is a great card. But I prefer the dark cap windup pose. Don't know why. Same thing with Roger Bresnahan. His portrait is nice with red, grey and green, but I like his other card better. I guess portraits showcase the player better, while action shots highlight the beauty of the artwork, and somewhere along the line the players won out over the sunsets.

And yes, not all players are as handsome as today, Dante Bichette notwithstanding. Rube Marquard makes Cy Young look like a beauty queen, and Hal Chase's pockmarks seem to be rouged out on his portraits. All I know is I love my Rube Waddell action shot, with those big bugeyes of his.

dstudeba

Thanks for all the replies

marc - I have to really take this to heart :

You will probably sell some really neat cards during your collecting years -- and replace them with cards you find even cooler and more desirable

It will be tough to sell the Mathewson, but as you said I can always get it back reasonably easily; and if I don't win the auction I will get to keep it!

Oh one more thing, every time you post one of your cards you add another card to my wantlist. The first time I saw a 1914 Cracker Jack Mathewson was when you posted it a few weeks back. I liked it, and now have a next to impossible card added to my wantlist......DOH! And now the Oakes card has been added to my wantlist....DOH! You are costing me more money than my wife!

mrc32 - I am interested to know why you think the prices are at their peak. I haven't followed Caramel prices, so I have nothing to go on.

----------------------

As usual looking for Wilson Franks

mikeschmidt

<<The first time I saw a 1914 Cracker Jack Mathewson was when you posted it a few weeks back. I liked it, and now have a next to impossible card added to my wantlist......>>

dstudeba: The 1914 Cracker Jack Mathewson card is certainly a mystery. Despite being an awesome card with an otherwise amazing picture -- this card seems to be extraordinarily difficult to find in any condition. I have heard about five different stories of examples of this card -- it simply is a freak of nature in terms of toughness. Even in deplorable condition, the card seems to have a magical air about it, and is very difficult to obtain (and, likely, very difficult for anyone to sell!). The 1914 Cracker Jack set is extraordinarily difficult, especially when compared vis a vis the 1915 Cracker Jacks which were essentially available in something much akin to "Presentation Sets". The few high grade 1914 Cracker Jacks that are out there are anomalies and extraordinary examples. I applaud Peter Garcia's efforts for that which he has put together over the past few years in the 1914 CJ arena. But that Mathewson card -- it's just something else!

Mantlefan

There's a great article in this month's Beckett Vintage by Keith Olbermann about this set. It's got me thinking about starting a set.

Checked EBAY..not many PSA graded T205's available. Saw one that closed already. What do you T205 experts think about the grading and price paid for this Christy?

PSA 6 Christy M.

1420sports

most notably Cy Young looks like the kid from 'King of the Hill" in his portrait

how true

I like the action shots alot better than the portraits. I own two T206 and both are action - I consider Mathewson dark cap as an action shot.

dstudeba - keep the T206. The artwork on the card is legendary, and I think the E card you are talking about looks like a cartoon

mrc32

<<mrc32 - I am interested to know why you think the prices are at their peak. I haven't followed Caramel prices, so I have nothing to go on.>>

The prices on those have been going up fast. Look at the ebay closed auction and you will see that a lot of the stars from the E-series go for more than the T-206s. Look at the latest SMR with Clemens on the cover (I got mine this week) and you will see that Joe's attempt to adjust prices has begun with + signs next to all the Carmel cards. They are just hot right now. Go over to Network 54 and look at the Buy/Sell/Trade thread. All those collectors are looking for them. Here is a good site http://www.caramel-cards.com/

Mantlefan-
I love the T-205 set. It isn't as expensive as some think. I was impressed by the hammer price on the T-205 Matthewson. Anything 6 or above goes for big bucks. I have been getting PSA 5s for 60 bucks and 4s for the mid 40s. I have also had good luck grading raw cards. Sometimes I think if I had to do it over again I might go for a much lower grade set, there are an abundence of those types of cards out there. But then again I am happy with the cards in 3-5 form that I have.

mikeschmidt

T-205's don't get expensive until:

A) You decide to collect high grades

You decide you want some of the rarer advertising backs in your set (to give it a more "master set" feel)

C) You decide to collect all the variations -- some of which are exceedingly rare and tremendously pricey.

mrc32

MS-
1) I agree. But there are so few available in high grade that in my mind that is not even an option. I enjoy the 4s and 5s. Look at some of the pictures from my set and tell me that those cards are not nice looking. This set is like any other and there will be people that have to have the best card no matter what the cost. I happen to like the look of a mostly PSA 4-5 set, so I don't plan on shelling out several hundred dollars for common cards.

2)Backs on T-205s are less important than with the T-206 set. I don't really care what the backs are. Others might.

3)Some of the variations are tough. But if it were easy then everyone would do it

dstudeba

Thanks all for the information. I have decided to hold off and wait for the E92 Mathewson which has less lipstick. The pictures are the same, but the cards are less scarce. Also many of the cards in the rest of the E92 set are just as beautiful.

As for the T205s, the set is interesting to me. I love the little writups on the back with statistics which are missing in the T206 set. I think the National League cards are some of the nicest ever, while the American League cards are downright ugly. Even though I am an American League fan, I only collect the National League in this set. But to each their own.