Images of some toners I scrounged up today - an IHC, a Lincoln and a Jefferson.

Russ

Large images here:

Click here for large obverse image.

Click here for large reverse image.



Large images here:

Click here for large obverse image.

Click here for large reverse image.



Large images here:

Click here for large obverse image.

Click here for large reverse image.

I believe that the toning is the real deal on all of these, but if you have a contrary opinion, don't be shy. Your reasoning would be appreciated, though.

The Lincoln is a bit ratty and doesn't grade very high, but than it didn't cost much.

I haven't a clue how to grade IHC's, but this one looked pretty strong to me, with a decent strike and relatively tick free surfaces. Opinions on the grade appreciated. Besides the toning, there's something else pretty cool about the coin. Let's see how quick you guys are today.

I think the nickel grades a solid MS65, and I REALLY like the look of it!

Russ, NCNE

airplanenut

Awesome coins, Russ! I'd say the IHC is a 64 or 65 RB... the toning knocks off the full RD.

Jeremy

wingedliberty

They are all very yummy!

Brian.

Newkid

I just love toned coins!! Nice IHC Russ.

RGL

Russ: In your immortal phrase: You suck.

I sent a similarly toned 1909 VDB to PCGS for grading and they bagged it as AT. My glorious hind quarters ... it is natural, like yours.

Re: The Indian, nice doubling, is that a doubled die (I presume) or strike doubling?

Russ

RGL,

Good eye on the indian. I think it's probably just strike doubling, but I don't know dick when it comes to that stuff. I just thought it was a cool bonus feature to the coin.

Want to here something funny? I've submitted two Lincolns with that type of toning. Both slabbed. Now, I REALLY suck.

Russ, NCNE

RGL

Now, you are really starting to tick me off ...

kamehameha00

Nice Coins!Love the Indian!

keets

hey russ

i have a group of nine 1948-D Jefferson's with the same approximate tone and appearance. i think they came from a roll(s) that a local had and is selling off. it might be interesting if you can point out any peculiar die polish or flow lines on yours.

your reference to grading the IHC's can be at least partially remedied with some help from an ANA grading book and a Photograde copy.

al h.

Russ

Keets,

I have all the books. I can't seem to learn that way. I have to learn by handling, reviewing, studying and comparing coins. So, I guess I'll have to come along more slowly than most.

Russ, NCNE

DHeath

Nice Jeff Russ. I really like it. I'm terrible with copper toning, but the IHC looks like a superb coin, and the 09 VDB is a fun find.

Baley

nice coins! the nickel is spectacular, and looks 99% "real" even if it had some help.

the 09VDB I'm not too crazy about, but knowing you, the price was right!

your '82 indian cent is very interesting, rather than strike doubling I think it has some die clash action going on. Nice piece!

shylock

Besides the nice toning that IH has a lot going on.

1) There's a strong clash of the ear between the N & E of ONE.
2) Looks like strong Longacre's doubling on the reverse-- it's doubled on both sides of most of the elements, like the shield and wreath -- and very strong strike doubling on the obverse (profile, date).
3) There's a very rare 1882 "1-in-neck" MPD I've never seen before, not sure if the 1 sticks out of the neck or the bust on that. Do I see something sticking out of the bust on yours? (pic of Lakesammman's 1883 1-in-neck)

Russ

Shylock,

Yep, it has that same thing as Tim's. Except it's located a little higher on the coin than his. Cool. Didn't even notice that when I bought it. I was just looking at the nice surfaces, the doubling on the obverse and the toning.

The die clash between the N and E is, indeed, there. I didn't know what it was until now, though.

But, I think that what looks like doubling on the reverse might be mostly lighting shadows.

Russ, NCNE

ANACONDA2

LOVE THE vdb.

CarlWohlforth

Something for almost everybody! I like the Jeff myself

sinin1

I have a similar colored Lincoln that has came back bodybagged from 2 services - once for cleaned and once for altered surfaces - might have to go net grade from ANACS of NCS (but my coin not really worth that much)


I really like the Jefferson possibly a MS67 NoSteps?

Russ

Shylock,

Here's a closer shot of the neck thingy:



Russ, NCNE

shylock

Wow...the Fly-In Club Census lists 2 known of those (S-6). I'd love to see a close-up if it's possible. That coin should go to ANACS or NGC if either of them recognize that variety, would be very worth your while. It's considered one of the top 45 IH varieties and a very rare one at that.

shylock

Russ - is it below the 1st pearl of the necklace, which sticks out from the neck a bit on IH's, or is it coming out of the pearl? Hard for me to see in the image and I want to make sure you're not confusing the 1st pearl as being the MPD.

Russ

Shylock,

It sticks out directly in front of, and on the same level, as the first pearl. Here's another image:



There seems to be distinct separation between it and the bust.

Russ, NCNE

shylock

Yeah, it sure does -- thanks for all the pics. That's got to be the S-6 and a very cool find, the pretty color is icing on the cake.

Let me see if I can find Lakesammman's checkbook....

Russ

Okay, I pulled out the only other IHC I have around and compared them. Not the best example, since it's only an EF40, But, looking at the two, I've got a hunch that the thingy on the 1882 is just a malformed first pearl. Of course, I'd be happy to be wrong.

Russ, NCNE

Russ

OOPS! You slipped in while I was typing. So, I was wrong? Can I celebrate yet?

Russ, NCNE

DanC

The CPG shows as many as four 1's in the necklace, also possibly part of another digit punched in the neck between the ribbon and hair. Sure looks like the S6 I'm seeing...

shylock

I wish I had better info about this variety, I'll email your image to Rick Snow before we get ahead of ourselves. The pearl looks too long and narrow, and I've never really seen a malformed one like that. However....this obverse has some serious strike doubling and that could make the pearl look twice as long. Let's wait and hear from Rick before we pop any corks.

shylock

PS: LOL, I just saved your image and saw you named it "thingy2".

Russ

Yeah, I haven't learned the technical terms yet.

Russ, NCNE

shylock

DanC has a good eye. I did find a brief desription of the S6 by Larry Steve as it having "multiple digits in beads" so we're looking in the right place. I emailed Rick and should hear from him tomorrow.

IrishMike

Russ, I am telling you these copper cents get addictive. If that is an S6 you hit a homerun and then some.

DanC

It's an S-6!

I've been poring (repeatedly) over it at 10X under a 100-watt incandescent. It's unquestionably the upper left edge of the "1" in front of bead #1 - and the digit between the hair and ribbon on the neck matches the sweep of the "2" perfectly. Bear in mind, I'm relying ONLY upon the wisdom of Mr. Snow's description and diagnostics... but there seems little question.

Beyond the 17-32 known to exist (now, apparently 18-33) the color is OUTRAGEOUS! This one looks (to my untrained but hopeful eye) an MS-65 RB all day long!

Without toning, an MS-64 is supposed to be about $1,300! (digging in my wallet)

"Hey Russ - I'll give you five times what you paid for it... right now!"

DanC

This is WAY too important a find to allow to sink down to "never-never" land...

MAULDEMALL

Geeze Russ....You seemed to wake em up today.

Thats awesome.
Congrats

FC57Coins

Russ - will the coin be on it's way to PCGS by the time you read this post this morning?

mbbiker

Those are some great looking coins and an amazing find on the IHC. I've been looking for one of those for 4 years and i've never even seen one

gemtone65

Russ: All your scans , regardless of coin denomination or metal, seem to show an unusual amount of pink color. Do you tend to gravitate to that color, or do you need to adjust your scanner/camera?

shylock

Rick Snow said the S6 has the digits on the neck and they're quite bold, different from the image I sent him. I'd still like to see a micro shot of this area to see if the doubling is what caused the unusual look. There's always the possibility it's another MPD variety. Sorry if I led you on Russ, guess that's one of the hazards of internet cherrypicking. For my tastes I love the look of it on its own merits, and that double chin is wild.

shylock

I finally found an image of an S6. Unlike the 1884 & 1897 "1-in-necks" this one doesn't stick out into the field but is pretty obvious even in this image.

Russ

Shylock,

Am I seeing things, or does that look an awful lot like mine?



The doubling in the lettering even appears to be the same.

Russ, NCNE

IndianHeadMan

nice thread guys, let's solve this riddle.

DanC

Bear in mind that the S-6 may have "up to four" 1's, but doesn't necessarily include all.

The strong diagnostic that I was seeing was the piece of the "2" in the neck between ribbon and hair.
the angle, and the distance apart are in keeping with an MPD of the S-6 variety (according to what I'm seeing)

Obviously - I could also be full of crap - which HAS occurred to me.

Russ

Well, we should have a definitive answer soon enough. It's packed and will be on the way to NGC tomorrow under Variety Plus.

Russ, NCNE

shylock

I'm glad to hear you're sending it to NGC Russ. I think this may be a case of the image being tough for the rest of us to interpret due to the deep toning in that area. You guys have the advantage of having the coin in hand, and if you see at least some of these traits send that baby to Florida. Be sure to mention the FS # on the invoice to lead them in the right direction. Here's the auction lot I posted the image from, nice price for a 64RB.

Russ

<< <i>Be sure to mention the FS # on the invoice to lead them in the right direction. >>



Did that. Had Dan look it up for me in the Cherry Picker's Guide to verify what NGC told me. In case anybody's interested, it's FS-009.43.

Russ, NCNE

DanC

Shylock is (IMHO) right on with his assessment. The toning does provide certain challenges. You DO have to rotate the coin about 15 degrees counterclockwise in order to cast the right light onto the "2" area. I had to look at it 10 times to see it. (or to believe it)

shylock

Toned copper images can really play tricks with your eyes. I drove myself nuts recently looking at the reverse of this Ebay coin. Slabbed as a proof, I thought I saw traces of the S1 reverse die clash (example), the denticle marks in particular. The one I own has prooflike surfaces so I was thinking NGC may have miss-attributed this one. I finally concluded this clash is so obvious no one could miss it, especially NGC, and I was talking myself into seeing something that wasn't there. Some well placed toning spots took hold of my imagination. Too bad, would have been a great price for one of those. (I'm still curious though!)