You Make the Call.

seinbigd · June 17, 2003 7:48AM

Here's a topic that some of you may find interesting...

I've hidden the grades on these cards. Please post what grade you would give these two cards.
I'll post a scan of the card grades tomorrow.

Those of you who have some knowledge of the cards in my set, please don't influence the outcome of this informal "survey".

Thanks,

Steve

You make the Call.

goodriddance189 · June 17, 2003 7:50AM

Kaline- 7
Petrocelli- 8.....would be my (uneducated) guesses

thejam · June 17, 2003 7:52AM

ak= 7 rp=8

1420sports · June 17, 2003 7:53AM

Kaline 7, Petrocelli 8oc

gemint · June 17, 2003 7:59AM

Wow, you guys are tough. Though hard to tell from a scan, they are both 8 candidates but the Kaline may downgrade depending on how significant the chipping is along the edges. I've see cards with worse looking chipping achieve 8NQ.

murcerfan · June 17, 2003 8:03AM

Steve,
Could you break the cards out of the holders and post better scans?
I'm really on the fence here and don't want to stir up another love fest.

Galveston · June 17, 2003 8:08AM

I think they are both PSA 8.

Those corners are really nice.

But something tells me it might be a trick question so, I'll also toss out a 9 for the Petrocelli and a 7 for the Kaline.

braves72078 · June 17, 2003 9:05AM

Kaline = 6

Petro = 8

AlanAllen · June 17, 2003 9:20AM

Kaline 8
Petrocelli 9

apoidea · June 17, 2003 9:24AM

I'll say.......

Kaline=5
Rico=6

Vargha · June 17, 2003 9:25AM

I am assuming that there are no surface creases that the scan won't show, so that we find out later that Rico is a PSA 5 . . . Additionally, it is difficult to tell from a scan whether the cards have rough cuts, dings or chipping . . . That being stated, my guesses are:

Al --7 and Rico -- 8

aro13 · June 17, 2003 9:30AM

Both 8's.

toppsgun · June 17, 2003 9:33AM

Both are PSA 7 NQ

TWINRON · June 17, 2003 9:49AM

LOOKS LIKE ONE OF MY PSA6's WITH A MISTERIOUS HIDDEN WRINKLE THAT SHOULD BE PSA8's. MY GUESS IS 2 PSA6's.

KING KELLOGG · June 17, 2003 9:53AM

I'll say 8 PD on both of them...

(Where's my prize???)

Larry

dbj77 · June 17, 2003 9:56AM

look like both 8's to me without a scan of the back

Virtualizard · June 17, 2003 10:31AM

Both 9's.

JEB.

72leadfoot · June 17, 2003 10:33AM

Both high end 8's, could see them as 9's

FB · June 17, 2003 10:40AM

I've got to go with

both 8's.

dstudeba · June 17, 2003 10:45AM

Kaline = 8
Petrocelli = 4 in an 8 holder, absolutely the dog of your collection, I will be kind and take it off your hands for $25.

-----------------------

recalling all Wilson Franks

BigKidAtHeart · June 17, 2003 10:54AM

kaline - 8
petrocelli - 7

(I think the point is to say the petro was
Under graded, using the Higher graded
kaline card that is not as nice...)

~jeff

Tipem · June 17, 2003 11:28AM

Best Guess,

Kaline-- 8
Petrocelli-- 7

Should be

Kaline-- 6 or 7 (at best)
Petrocelli-- 7PD or maybe 8PD

Vic

murcerfan · June 17, 2003 11:36AM

Kaline- 9.5
Petrocelli - 9.5

jimrupprecht · June 17, 2003 1:17PM

Hard to tell from your scans... I'd concur with the guy above who asked you to crack them and give a better look.

IMHO the Kaline today is a 7... though it would probably be an 8 if the card had white borders. My guess for the grade on the holder, however, is that it is a "9 NQ" with a serial number starting with a 0... It looks like the edges have been beat up by the holder stops.

If the discoloration on the Petrocelli around his name is simply jpeg artifacts, I'd guess that card at an "8 NQ".

Again, hard to tell from the scans... and we have also yet to see the backs.

-j

GATOR5 · June 17, 2003 1:40PM

Kaline a 7 having a line across the bottom right corner for thats what psa told me on
alot of my razor 7's from vintage.

Petrocelli a 9 (nice card)

Boopotts · June 17, 2003 2:06PM

I'd go with toppsgun's guess. I'd say the Kaline has too much chipping around the edges (along with the small ding in what is the lower right corner on the scan) for an 8, although it would definitely be a high seven.

I couldn't get the entire scan on the Petrocelli, but the cut-out picture looks like it's slightly askew, which might account for a bump down on the grading scale.

Either way, IMO these are two very nice cards. I'd like to own either.

murcerfan · June 17, 2003 4:12PM

Dan.............wanna buy a Petrocelli 8?

seinbigd · June 17, 2003 10:24PM

dstudeba,

Thanks for the offer but I just couldn't bring myself to take advantage of you like that...

mikeschmidt · June 17, 2003 10:28PM

Kaline 7

Petrocelli 6

The Petrocelli seems to have a white nick in the edge along the middle of the left side of the card -- I think probably many might overlook this in assessing the grade.

I'll also say that it is pretty tough to make a call on the corners because of the scan. They look sharp and like they come to a point -- but I cannot tell for sure.

seinbigd · June 17, 2003 10:38PM

Good Morning to All,

Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond. I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments.

Here's a couple hints I should have included with the original post:

- Cards were graded without qualifiers.

- IMHO, the backside of the cards are clean and well-centered and do not have an adverse impact on the
grade assigned to the card.

I'll post a scan with the card grades later today.

Steve

GATOR5 · June 17, 2003 11:00PM

Come on we want grades

Vargha · June 18, 2003 12:04AM

Dammit Steve! This is worse than "details at eleven." I want the answers now!

1954 · June 18, 2003 12:15AM

Steve,
I think the cards are very high end. I believe the Petrocelli is equal to the Kaline. It seems like everyone has the opinion that the Kaline card looks chipped or has print defects. That Kaline is extremely nice. I wish I had that one in my set.

Your friend,
1954

gtbeaker · June 18, 2003 12:24AM

Kaline- 7
Petrocelli- 8

Obviously Steve has some reason to doubt the grades he did receive, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if they both came out as 6's.

seinbigd · June 18, 2003 12:28AM

Well OK,

For those of you with inquiring minds that want to know...

BigKidatHeart, I agree with you. The Petrocelli appears to be under-graded compared to the Kaline...might be time to crack that one out and give murcerfan a better look at it...congratulations to jimrupprecht who came closest to correctly making the call on these cards.

You Made the Call.

jimrupprecht · June 18, 2003 12:54AM

Hold on a sec while I go buy a lottery ticket.....

Ok, back now. I personally don't collect many cards with dark borders, and don't own a single graded, black-bordered card, but have seen too many at shows with chipped borders in 8, 9 or 10 holders. I always suspected that the little bit of movement a card has inside a holder could cause some chipping, and brucemo seems to have tested and confirmed this on his web site. I am a bit surprised to see the 9xxxxxxxx serial number, however. The fact that the chipping, save one possible fleck in the lower left corner, was all between the stops is what made me suspect this.

IMHO, the quality of the scan makes discriminating between 8 and 9 on the other card almost impossible. Regardless, it is a nice card.

-j

dstudeba · June 18, 2003 1:43AM

Dave -

If I had picked up the Jabo, I probably wouldn't be able to afford the $25 I offered for the Petrocelli! HAHA! I have been doing well of late on the set and am now scraping together funds to go after the Groth, unfortunately I know I will but heads with another guy, but hopefully can prevail.

seinbigd -

I am here to help! Nice card though, I love those early 70s pictures of Rico with the sideburns, thanks for the pictures.

---------------------

need Wilson Franks

radiationguy · June 18, 2003 2:20AM

This is a super post. It goes to show you the range of grades a group of highly trained eyes can come up with. The Kaline ranged from PSA 5-9 and the Rico ranged from PSA 6-10. We all want consistency in the grading process but I think PSA does the best job of any of the grading companies. Granted some slip through but nobody is perfect. The next time someone complains about a grade they need to read this thread and see how much variance there is with highly trained collectors that have seen hundreds of thousands of cards in their lifetime.

Billy

GATOR5 · June 18, 2003 2:50AM

sein,

Does the kaline have a line across the bottom right corner or is it just a small chip on the bottom
right border.

mikeschmidt · June 18, 2003 2:53AM

<<The next time someone complains about a grade they need to read this thread and see how much variance there is with highly trained collectors that have seen hundreds of thousands of cards in their lifetime. >>

Only qualification being that my grading accuracy improves two or threefold if I can actually see and handle the card in person. Though the scans were very helpful in this matter -- there are often, including in this case, aspects of the card that cannot be objectively quantified only through a scan.

GATOR5 · June 18, 2003 3:52AM

ms

here here, for this was not a test.

Talyho · June 18, 2003 4:31AM

Without being able to examine the backs of these cards I would say they are both 7's with Petro being a high end 7, I haven't seen enough greatest moments to tell on the top to bottom centering, but would say that Petro looks to be o/c top to bottom...

ydsotter · June 18, 2003 4:38AM

kaline 8
petro 9

Virtualizard · June 18, 2003 4:54AM

ydsotter,

Somehow, I have a feeling that you've got it backwards.

JEB.

seinbigd · June 18, 2003 6:16AM

gator5,

that looks to be a small chip and not a line across the card.

KING KELLOGG · June 18, 2003 7:05AM

Three Cheers for you Steve.......

Great post!

Larry

cakeman · June 18, 2003 7:50AM

Kaline - 6 or 7 (edge wear on top)
Petrocelli - 7 or 8 (edge wear on left)

You Make the Call.

Comments