The Seller states, "counterfeit" but it looks REAL?!

braddick

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3029096207&category=11976&rd=1

I've seen counterfeit Bust Dollars and this one has me fooled. The Seller is honest in his description, but is there a chance he's wrong and it is NOT a counterfeit?
If it is real it's worth a ton more than the bids that are in play now.
Any Bust Experts willing to lend a helping hand and guide me through why this one is not real?

coinguy1

Pat, one thing that catches my attention, after just a quick look, is that the date looks wrong/too bold.

braddick

I know, too 'squared off'- I caught that. But, on a well struck specimen, in AU+, this is still possible?

goose3

sure is a nice looking fake

jonesy

There's a VF30 at heritage. Even though it's worn, it's wing feathers are pristine. From 2 scans!

jonesy

Sure shot way! Buy it! Submit it!

lordmarcovan

Supersize the picture. Look at the "R" in LIBERTY. See how it's "broken"?

That's a well-known struck counterfeit, mentioned in the PCGS book. The broken "R" is probably the easiest diagnostic I know of to look for, on the 1799 dollars.

Even without it, that piece wouldn't have looked right to me, somehow.

No, on second glance, edit that- it woulda fooled me, without the "R".

Somebody's gonna try to submit that, and get a bodybag.

tjkillian

As I understand it, this variety is one of the best. Some counterfeits are so bad, but this one actually looks real. Still too much money already.

Tom

morganbarber

LM is right. That counterfeit is famous. I think it was one of the Travers books that shows the broken R as the diagnostic.

lordmarcovan

Hmm. Maybe it was Travers. Seems to me, it's in the PCGS guide, as well.

Dangerous item. The seller deserves full marks for honesty. He could have hooked a lot of suckers with that piece if he were less ethical. As it is, it looks as though he'll hook a sucker or two, anyway, despite his warnings to them.

braddick

Well, that answers it. I've heard of good counterfeits out there, just never saw one up close. As a counterfiet, these still have value. Would you place this one as being too expensive now or is there still room on the price?

lordmarcovan

Too steep now, definitely.

But if reeded edge counterfeits go for absurd prices, why shouldn't this much more sophisticated one go for more?

It's all in the ethics, I suppose.

BTW, I saw another example of this same counterfeit on eBay, a while back. The pics weren't quite as nice, but the seller was also selling it as a counterfeit. He'd gotten a bodybag from PCGS or NGC and had a picture of the "questionable authenticity" insert he'd gotten along with the coin.

I can't remember how the auction did in the end. Pretty good, as I recall, considering it was sold as a counterfeit. There's always somebody willing to gamble.



You can't help but worry that this thing will end up in the wrong hands, though- somebody not as ethical...

dorkkarl

common fake. lots of these around

K S

NumisEd

Uh,oh. I just checked and the dang thing is up to $280! I bought a couple of this exact same fake for $15 and $20. Dang, someone just got screwed.

NumisEd

Here's a great link for determining counterfiet bust dollars:

Bust Dollar Counterfiet Detection Web Site

The counterfiet in this thread is called the "Die Hard" counterfiet, according to the author of the web site.

AbesNeighbor

Thanks Numised!

I just read the whole article and it was very interesting. I guess a person should by a graded coin only or get an opinion before spending big bucks.

Dan

sinin1

sold for $400+ -> do you think the buyer will sell it as real for $1500?


I remember last summer, a dealer from Minneapolis had one just like it - bought it for $1200 from someone who walked into his store -> sent it in to PCGS

came back bodybagged -> not authentic


sold it on eBay and described story as such, ended up going for a little over $500, if I remember correctly