Pop Top 1966 Washington PCGS MS67 on Ebay

WWBillman

Face value opening bid with no reserve. A TRUE auction.

1966

cladking

Wow! Great coin. It's tough to tell from a scan, but that looks a lot nicer
than any non-SMS '66 I've seen.

bushmaster8

Beauty! But the thing is, it may very well be a SMS coin in reality!? In my experience, PCGS does a poor job of differentiating between business strike and SMS coins. This is especially for the 1965 year. I once plucked some gemmy 1965 dimes from a group of original bank wrapped rolls and PCGS graded them as SMS's!! Of course with the SMS label, thecoins they were worth a tiny fraction of what they would have been worth had they been correctly classified!

wondercoin

BM is correct. I see a healthy % of 1965-67 SMS coins in many denominations mislabeled as regular issue coins. Everyone should be careful and on alert

Wondercoin

cladking

I'm not going to grade or attribute from a scan and have always had some
doubt that a coin can be proven to be SMS or not in most cases. The pictured coin does
look very much to have the surface characteristics of a regular issue. Ganted
it is far and away the best struck '66 I've ever seen were it from a BU roll. It
is also far and away the cleanest such coin.

It would seem to be an impossibility since I've probably seen at least one ex-
ample of every die used in '66 and nothing has come close. The coin doesn't
seem to have the "SMS look" though. I've heard rumors of very choice gems
coming from '66 BU rolls. There is a board member who says he owns multiple
rolls. I've never even seen a gem, much less a superb gem.

My last post could easily have been misinterpreted. Thanks for clarifying.

WWBillman

For what its worth........ And thanks for scaring people away from my auction

This is one of two I have owned and I choose to keep this one as it was the better of the two. Both were bought when the pop was around 19 or 20 and came from the same dealer who is at least 40% responsible for the current pop of 33. The dealer stated the coins were being pulled from BU rolls.


Thanks Cladking for your great post.

wondercoin

"And thanks for scaring people away from my auction"

Bill: I trust you know that was certainly not my intention. In fact, I think I'll bid on your coin just to demonstrate that fact. Based upon my experiences, PCGS has done a remarkable job buying problem SMS coins off the market. But, again, collectors should be on high alert to ensure a 1965-67 coin is truly regular issue IMHO

Wondercoin

WWBillman

wondercoin,

It really was not meant in a real bad way and yes I know there was no intent but putting doubt in the minds of bidders can have a negative affect on the hammer price and this is a no reserve auction.

So can anyone tell me what are the diagnostics that will tell you SMS or MS? I am a collector not a dealer. I have never searched any mint sets or rolls so me looking at the coin and trying to tell the difference is the same as my 10 year old looking at it.

bushmaster8

Bill- I posed that very question to David Hall in the Q&A forum last week but I see he either chose not to answer it or "the screeners" did not give the question to him. I did get an answer to the same question (exactly how does PCGS differentiate between business strikes and SMS coins?) from BJ last year, though I feel her answer was totally inadequate. Her answer was, "It's usually a no-brainer, send the coins back and we will look at them again." But by then the coins had been placed in a Teletrade auction and would not have been practical to retrieve. Anyway it seems they (PCGS) do not have a real answer to the question!

btw- I truly hope your auction makes you a mint!

cladking

Most all the SMS dies were at least partially polished which give the
coins a satiny luster. Dies were generally retired before evidence of
the polishing was gone. This polishing is especially apparent on early
strikes like the one in the auction, though this shows evidence of be-
ing a new die but not having been polished. Again though, it's diffi-
cult to be sure from a scan.

Some of these dies were heavily polished and were used with polished
planchets.

WWBillman

Thanks cladking although that tells ME nothing

So every time a 1965 - 1967 MS Washington goes back into the hands of a collector the coins authenticity is brought back into question?

I thought one of the reasons to buy PCGS graded coins was to eliminate that problem.

nucklehead

Should be very interesting to see what this coin goes for.

cladking

The problem is that there was such a very wide range of mint procedures used
for the preparation of dies and planchets during that era. The mint was also do-
ing a lot of experimentation with the SMS coins. There's also no way to prove that
a coin from an SMS was the same coin that the mint put into it since these sets can
be opened and reclosed (except '65). Unopened rolls of the coins could have been
assembled from mint sets.

Those who are familiar with these coins can probably separate BU from SMS with a
very high accuracy rate and PCGS could likely do even better.

docday2003

Very interesting, and a beautiful coin to boot!

TWQG

I'm pretty sure my 25c 1967 in 67 is SMS in a MS holder but I really love the color.
Besides, the insert says all I need it to say

I don't think PCGS knows the difference on these.